Veterans Affairs Committee on Sept. 23rd, 2024

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Desilets.

Let's go to Ms. Blaney for six minutes, please.

Ms. Blaney, you have the floor.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for being here, Nina. I appreciate it very much.

I also want to take another opportunity to thank you for your service and for your generosity with this committee, because you do come visit us and you educate us every single time. Thank you for that.

My first question to you is sort of two questions wrapped up in one. I would really like it if you could share with the committee how being in the Gulf War affected your mental and physical health. The second part that I want to tie in with that is.... You said in your introduction to us that Canada never thanked you for your service during that time.

Can you talk about how it impacted you mentally and physically, and what the ramifications of that are in the context of Canada not appreciating or acknowledging that service?

[Sgt Nina Charlene Usherwood]

Thank you for your question.

After the war was over and I returned to Germany, I was unaware of any impact on my health at the time. Other than my anger, due to the treatment by the CAF towards the end of combat, I did not think my time in the gulf had any impact on me. I knew what Gulf War syndrome was, and I didn't think I had it. I would have said that for years and years.

However, recently, I've been diagnosed with inappropriate sinus tachycardia. When I'm relaxed, watching TV or something like that, just watching a movie, my heart rate will suddenly elevate. It will go up by 30 beats per minute, and it'll stay there. It just lingers. It has even lingered through a night of sleeping. I don't know what has caused that, and so far they haven't figured it out. I get to go do another test tomorrow. Maybe they can figure it out then.

I am conscious that, during the Gulf War, I took pyridostigmine bromide tablets every eight hours a day for almost a month. The reason we were told we were taking it was that, if we were exposed to sarin gas, we had the atropine injectors, which would help our hearts keep beating, but if we weren't exposed to enough, we were told that the atropine could kill us and that we needed the pyridostigmine bromide, the PB tablets, to help keep us from being killed by the atropine.

Additionally, we took antibiotics every 12 hours for weeks. If you do the math, that means every four hours we were supposed to take a pill.

Another thing that happened was that there was an anthrax vaccine, and it's been around for years, against the bacteria, but they decided that we would get it. The way they decided who would receive the vaccine was that they looked at the anticipated rotation date back to Germany or to Canada. Because the vaccine took three parts, if your anticipated return to Germany or to Canada was going to be before you could get the third part, you weren't going to get it. Therefore, if you were like me—scheduled to get it four days after you were scheduled to be rotated back—then they started you on this. If you were scheduled to go a week before I was scheduled to go back, you wouldn't get it.

Also, we were exposed to the oil fires. When he lit the oil fields on fire, we did not experience bright sunlight again in the gulf—period. The first time I really saw the sun again was when I was flying back to Germany and we lifted up.... I don't know if it was 10,000 or 20,000 feet. We suddenly broke into brilliant sunlight. It was not a cloudy day. There were no clouds in the sky. As I looked out the window of the Hercules aircraft, I could see the black ring of smoke that was entirely around, horizon to horizon. It was absolutely black. I've been in poor weather conditions before, even some dust conditions in the south, but it was nothing like this. It was just pure black, like the black of your glasses frame.

I have skin cancer, and VAC said, “Okay, you were in a special duty area, so we will accept that.” It took them a while to accept that.

I talked about feeling that Scud missile attack towards us. The first night that it started—the war—was January 16 into January 17. We had trained for this kind of potential nuclear, biological, chemical warfare in Europe. Thinking back now, what we did there was a joke, but we did....

I had my NBCW suit with me. We knew the war was starting. Even prior to the war, we were told we had to take it downtown, when we were allowed to go downtown. I don't know how all the locals would have liked it if we had been able to hear an alarm and if we had suddenly gotten dressed in this and none of the others had it.

I thought that was a waste of time, but we had it, and on the first night, the alarm went off five times. Each time, I got into my full gear, sitting with my gas mask. I lay on my bed in the bunk, because I was off shift at the time, and I looked at the thin, tin roof of the old workers' camp in CD1. I thought, “Well, I'm definitely safe against a Scud missile with that thin tin above me.”

As it turned out, none of them came toward us. They were all heading toward Saudi Arabia or Israel, but we had no way of knowing that. It was a very tense night.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you.

[Sgt Nina Charlene Usherwood]

On February 23, 2022, I went to bed knowing that Putin was going to launch his missiles and his attack on Ukraine. It was clear from the news. I'm someone who follows the news, so it was very clear to me.

I woke up in the middle of the night. First of all, I was dreaming I was back in Doha, looking at the roof. I woke up in the middle of the night and I was sure I was in Doha, because I knew what the Ukrainians were going through. I know what that feeling of fear is. I know what it is to lie there and know that you really have no protection whatsoever.

If a Scud had hit us directly, it wouldn't have even mattered what shelter there was. We would have been dead. However, the one Scud he fired at us.... He fired 88 Scuds, and the one he fired was not....

I'm sorry.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

No, that's okay. Thank you. I'm learning a lot listening to you and what you went through. You keep smiling. That's great.

Now I'd like to invite Mrs. Wagantall to take her five minutes.

[An hon. member]

[Inaudible—Editor]

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

I'm sorry. Mr. Dowdall, please, go ahead.

[Terry Dowdall, Conservative, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

Thank you very much.

I believe you're up in the next round, Cathay.

First of all, I want to thank you, Ms. Usherwood, for being here today, and for your service as well.

This is our second hour, but our first day of the study as a whole. It's been really interesting to hear, like you said earlier, about.... We're studying more time and special service, and the difference. We had a special guest last week, Kevin Sampson, who was here as well, and I found it quite interesting to hear what he had to say in his testimony. I think you were bang on when you said the fact is that the only people who truly understand it are those who are part of the CAF. The rest of society is really not up to speed on this.

What I've really heard over the two meetings thus far is that the main reason they weren't recognized—why it was believed they weren't—is the fact that it would be a huge financial issue for the government. That's probably the number one response for “why”. Now, listening to you and your testimony, you were saying it had something to do with the government's perception of the difference between peacekeeping and war fighters. You, during your tour, were a war fighter.

I don't know if you could speak a little more to that part of it and the financial aspect.

[Sgt Nina Charlene Usherwood]

I call it the myth of peacekeeping. In Canada, we say that Lester Pearson invented peacekeeping. Well, I don't know how that would go with Brigadier-General Angle, who died in 1948, 1949 or 1950—I've forgotten. He died five or six years before the Suez crisis on a UN peacekeeping mission, a mission that still exists to this day.

As I said, Canada has this myth about what really goes on with peacekeeping. That's what I see. When we have Canadians who die in peacekeeping missions, we generally don't acknowledge them, because that would suggest that it's not just, “Oh, we go there with our blue berets and our white vehicles and we stand and hold our hands up.” No—Canadians die.

Last I remember, 118 have died on peacekeeping missions. To do that, to stand in front of somebody.... There is the Gandhi example. It stands there and just accepts what someone else is doing, but that's not going to get sides like, for example, what's going on in Ukraine or, for that matter, what's going on in the Gaza or Lebanon.... They're not going to stop. By the way, there are peacekeepers right now in the area between Israel and Lebanon and the Golan Heights and all that. They're still there. That's another peacekeeping mission that predates the Suez Canal by eight years—in 1948, I think it was—and in 1948 the first person died there. It was a French army soldier.

No, the Canadian government doesn't like to think of Canadian military personnel dying. I think that Canadians are actually better than that. They don't blame us for being where the government sends us. They understand that. The policy decisions that the government makes as to where they deploy us, they can be blamed for that, but not for the personal deaths of Canadians. All of us who have ever died volunteered. There hasn't been anybody in combat—Canadian—who wasn't a volunteer, except I'm not sure about World War I. The conscripts never went to Europe in World War II.

[Terry Dowdall, Conservative, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

Thank you very much.

Another thing I heard that made me a bit upset, I guess, was the part where you didn't receive your medal originally, but then you did and you were told you weren't entitled to it. It really didn't feel like you had your thanks for service. Is that felt by quite a few people during that period of time, that they were...or that they just didn't get the thanks they deserved? That's number one.

Number two, as you know, we're having a tough time recruiting. Do you think that some of the ways we dealt with our past are maybe perhaps catching up to the present?

[Sgt Nina Charlene Usherwood]

There were definitely other people who felt that. Some of the medals, the first issue, weren't made very well. Frankly, they peeled. My medal still looks cheap compared to any medal that's been stamped since.

As far as the recruiting goes, I guess it's possible, but I can't say for sure that's why. Of course, I mean, I don't want to go to Russia or, for that matter, the States, where it's hyper-patriotic. I don't want someone with a rifle beside me who doesn't really want to be there and believe in what we're doing. I never wanted that. We don't want that. I think the time is coming.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Dowdall.

Now I'd like to go to Ms. Hepfner for five minutes, please.

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

I really want to thank you as well, Sergeant Usherwood, for being here with us today and sharing your experiences. Also, thank you for your service. I'm sorry that you haven't heard that enough.

I think my colleague Rachel Blaney took the questions that I had originally prepared for you. In your opening statement, you talked about all these indignities that I think you've suffered. You talked about the medal. You just brought it up again now. You talked about having to scratch and scramble for proper gear when you were in the desert and having to quickly modify CF-18s on the fly.

What would you say is the overall impact of these indignities? Is it something that you think is fairly common among your peers or do you think you were singled out?

[Sgt Nina Charlene Usherwood]

I think it's very common among my peers. The resentment is because.... We see it as a war. It was a war. On the base I was at in Doha, there was an American squadron as well. Three of its aircraft were shot down and all of the pilots were beat up by Iraqis. We were conscious that we were in a war zone from day one. Now, it's 35-whatever years ago. Most of the people who served at that time are gone. I was one of the last to still be there, I suspect.

Yes, the people at the time were definitely conscious of that. In the same way, the people I know who served in Afghanistan are resentful of the way they have been treated.

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

I was moved when you said that you became resentful after the fact, when it sort of weighed on you.

We're here as a legislative committee to to find solutions, so when you walk away from today, what would you most like to see? What benefits do you think you should be receiving now that you don't receive?

What legislative changes do you think we need to make?

[Sgt Nina Charlene Usherwood]

I think the government needs to be able to recognize that its use of special duty areas is penalizing the veterans who serve in those areas because, literally, there are allowances that you can't get.

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

What kinds of allowances? Give me an example.

[Sgt Nina Charlene Usherwood]

There's a clothing allowance, for example. I don't know what it really is because I knew I wasn't entitled to it, so I never looked for it.

If I had passed away in my service.... Actually, that was before the veterans charter, so that changed everything. Currently, if someone passes away, the person gets half their military pension, but they're not a war widow or a war spouse if their partner dies. That's actually a difference in the funding that you receive.

The maximum funding you can get for pain and disability—or whatever you want to call it because they've changed the names a few times—is literally lower because of it not being considered a war.

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

How would you attack this legislatively?

Would you change that definition? Would you offer more benefits to more veterans?

Tell me more.

[Sgt Nina Charlene Usherwood]

Repeal the veterans charter of 2006. It's that simple.

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Please elaborate on that.

[Sgt Nina Charlene Usherwood]

The veterans charter, which was voted and passed unanimously by the House of Commons, was not studied. I and my fellow service members and veterans feel it was a way for the government to save money by putting an absolute cap on the amount of money that you could get. Initially, it was just an absolute cap, but now they have said that it was not even remotely fair so we can get a lifetime pension. However, we can't get the same amount of pension. That started with the new veterans charter in 2006.

For my skin cancer that could well kill me, I have 5% disability. For my bad feet from wearing my boots, I have 5% disability.

My skin cancer was worth about 80 bucks a month at the time when they awarded it. My bad feet were worth $360 a month, because I applied for the problems with my feet before the veterans charter came in and I applied for the skin cancer after. It's that simple.

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Thank you very much.