Veterans Affairs Committee on Oct. 3rd, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

I would encourage you to have people go and speak to him.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you so much, Mr. Richards.

Now let's go to Ms. Anita Vandenbeld for five minutes, please.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Thank you very much.

I also wanted to say to you that I appreciate that you are ensuring that this is not a partisan issue. This is something that we know all of us care about. Getting you that recognition is something that we owe you as a country.

I wanted to ask you, because it's sort of coming out as if it was just nothing, but over the years there have been certain things that have changed. I know that underMinister Sajjan there were changes to make the wellness benefits. I think that at that time the understanding was that it was about trying to create equivalent benefits.

Really, at this point, I think we're starting to understand that it really is more about the actual commemoration, the actual recognition, the acknowledgement of the service. In my understanding, there has been a committee within Veterans Affairs that is looking at criteria and is doing the consultations.

If you could, please talk about what has been happening and the process and the fact that turning a machine as large as DND can be not the easiest thing at all times, especially when there isn't actually any policy to begin with.

For instance, the commemoration on the cenotaph falls under Canadian Heritage. There are so many different departments. Could you talk a bit about the progress that's been made over the years and the fact that this is really a trajectory that ultimately should be going faster but is moving in the right direction?

Is that correct?

[Mike McGlennon]

No.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Mike McGlennon]

No, no, no. I'll talk a little bit about the National War Memorial itself.

Pre-2014, the National War Memorial was strictly reserved for wartime service veterans. We all know who they were at this point. In 2014, the Government of Canada added “In Service to Canada”, added the Boer War, and added Afghanistan. Remember, the title of the National War Memorial is National War Memorial.

The UN peacekeeping monument that most of us probably know on Sussex Drive was built and dedicated in 1992, because the UN peacekeeping veterans of Canada were told, “No, you cannot go onto the National War Memorial. You are not wartime service veterans, so you have to go off and build your own.” They did that in 1992.

To go back to 2014, the Government of Canada added “In Service to Canada”. It's in very tiny letters, and directly placed under the dates of the First World War.

When I stand there and look at it, I see “1914-1918 In Service to Canada”. That's cool. I'm okay with that. However, my discussions with Veterans Affairs were, “No, Mike, you're wrong. You don't need to be separately inscribed in the National War Memorial, because you're not a wartime service veteran.” Got it, but if I get reclassified, I want to be there with my own dates. No. “You also don't need to be there because you're captured by 'In Service to Canada'.”

I say, “I didn't know that.” The letters are one-third the size of the date letters, and they're placed directly underneath. They're not pulled out or blown up like all the other dates so that there's transparency and awareness—and as well, “In Service to Canada” is to capture the non-wartime deaths.

Excuse me? With the National War Memorial, now you're telling me you're changing your rules here, and you are saying, “Oh, we're going to memorialize non-wartime service.” Did you tell the country that?

I think a discussion needs to be held with Veterans Affairs about this issue. We certainly have had the discussion. Veterans Affairs knows I have an issue, and they're working on it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Mr. Casey, you have 45 seconds.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Gentlemen, I have a quick question.

You heard the analyst indicate that there is no difference between wartime service veterans and special duty veterans with respect to compensation under the Pension Act or the Veterans Well-being Act, with the exception of the availability of long-term beds.

Do you agree with that?

[Harold Davis]

I believe Sammy Sampson was here on September 19. He discussed all of the ins and outs, and ups and downs and the policies. To me, that question was answered back then, so I won't be answering it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you very much.

It's over to Mr. Desilets.

You have two and a half minutes.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

What would you say is your greatest obstacle or opposition when it comes to this issue, Mr. Davis?

[Harold Davis]

The worst struggle for me is fighting the government for something that we should already have and that future veterans should have.

You guys all agree, but DND hasn't pushed it out. It should have been pushed out 30-odd years ago. It hasn't, so our struggle is trying to get that DND machine to move again. That's the big struggle, because it's not co-operating, as far as I'm concerned. There are no policies that tell which way we're going to go and how we're going to go. As a direct result, we are sitting here today, because we don't know where to go. It's not working.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

I have an easy question for you.

You're a veteran. You put your life on the line. Your family had to come second, and for years, you sacrificed for your country. What does it feel like when that's the response you get from the government—rejection?

As I said, you'll have no trouble answering that question.

[Harold Davis]

I'll give my opinion as a veteran.

I spent almost 32 years serving my country and I didn't ask for anything back. I just asked for support when I got out. At the time, when I was serving in the military, I didn't really care. I had medical support there, and my family had it. We didn't think about it.

The minute you walk out of that door, the first thing that happens is DND cuts you off and Veterans Affairs picks you up. You then have to fight for what you want to get from Veterans Affairs. It's not as simple as saying, “I have bad hearing.” You have to prove to them that you have bad hearing and where you got it.

Being a veteran, I shouldn't have to go through extraordinary lengths to get anything. It's only what I deserve. I'm only asking for what I deserve, not for anything else or anything extra. It's just what we deserve.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Davis.

Ms. Blaney, you may go ahead for two and a half minutes.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank both of you for answering questions for two hours. That's a tremendous amount of work, and I really appreciate your doing that.

One of the things we know is that recruitment and retention are becoming bigger and bigger issues for National Defence and the CAF. Based on what you're hearing from folks you speak with, and with your experience of being out there and fighting so hard to just get that recognition, do you feel it's going to impact people's interest in being recruited to serve our country? Will that make it harder for us to get people to join?

[Mike McGlennon]

In theory, you're looking at two walking recruiters. There are a couple more behind us. On paper, we're supposed to be selling the service to the next generation and the benefits that are obtained by being a member of a family that has important work to do, and on and on. When you end up in the situations we're in today and have been on the journey we've had to go on, it doesn't necessarily incentivize you to tell the teenager who rings your doorbell and asks if they should join the military, “You know, it's great when you're in—maybe—but be careful when you get out and if you have issues.”

You guys are more of an expert on that than I am. You could be homeless or you could have PTSD. You could have all kinds of issues. This is not something you think about when you're wearing a uniform. Your laser focus is on training, doing your mission and looking after the person on the left and the right. That's all you care about. It's only when it's over and you're out that you then discover what the heck is going on here.

If this gets out.... We've been trying to work within government. We've been trying to solve this inside the tent. Harold and I are not standing on Parliament Hill, waving placards, talking to CBC or doing anything. We're relying on your good graces as parliamentarians to see the problem and fix the frigging problem in a timely manner.

This is what you do. You know how to do it. I can't do it. I now turn it over to you. I have to say “please”. I have my tin cup.

Thank you.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

As soon as he saw the time card, he stopped.

Mr. Harold Davis, as president of the Persian Gulf Veterans of Canada, and Mr. Mike McGlennon, as vice-president, thank you so much for your testimony during the two hours today.

Colleagues, members of the committee, I have to inform you that this is the last committee of our clerk, Mr. Malachie Azémar. He's going to move to another committee this Thursday, so please join me in a round of applause for Malachie. Thank you so much.

Also, thank you to the technicians around here, and to the translators.

Ladies and gentlemen, this meeting is adjourned.