Veterans Affairs Committee on Oct. 7th, 2024

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Whether these were meetings or other forms of communication, in the time you've had with the Persian Gulf association, can you tell me what the specific asks were from those veterans to you or the department, and whether those requests were then brought to the minister?

[Amy Meunier]

During my tenure, they have ranged from questions about what is inscribed on the National War Memorial to improving recognition for Persian Gulf and other veterans, such as those who served in Afghanistan or Rwanda. We've talked about benefits and services. Questions came today about the Pension Act versus the Veterans Well-being Act.

Yes, I would say that the minister is aware of those conversations through briefing material, as well as directly from the veterans.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

I'm sorry. Can we back up a second, if you don't mind?

You mentioned improving recognition and you also mentioned benefits and services. I think we've established what those were.

Can you tell me what they were specifically asking for, in terms of improved recognition? What were the specific requests?

[Amy Meunier]

The most specific one is for Persian Gulf to be inscribed on the National War Memorial.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

What I'm seeing here is a bit of a pattern. These guys are asking for this. I don't think it is a difficult thing they're asking for.

We've seen delays in the construction of the national monument to the mission in Afghanistan. We've seen this committee being stymied by government members when we were trying to get documents produced in order to find out why the Prime Minister interfered to delay that. We saw a directive come out banning prayer at Remembrance Day ceremonies, which we were able to push back on. We saw the 10th anniversary of the end of the mission in Afghanistan come around last spring, with lots of speculation among veterans and even at the CBC about whether the department forgot until the last minute and failed to plan a proper ceremony or purposely wanted to keep it small. We've seen a lack of Canadian flags in the colour party at official Canadian events for the 80th anniversary of D-Day.

We heard that the Persian Gulf veterans are asking for something pretty simple here. I guess what I'm wondering is this: Why is it so difficult for this government to simply honour the legacy of Canadian veterans? There are so many examples, and it seems to be a pattern.

Can you give us any insight into that?

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Excuse me, Mr. Richards, but the time has gone. We have until 5:40, so you will be able to come back and get answers from the witnesses here.

Mr. Sean Casey, you have five minutes. Please go ahead.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

To all of the folks in uniform here today, thank you for your service.

Ms. Meunier, I'm sure you've been at the committee often enough to know that you have the right and ability to respond to any of these questions in writing once the committee is done, once the session wraps up. It's too bad that you weren't afforded enough time to be able to answer that rather scathing indictment of your work.

This is for Mr. Tessier. We heard this evidence, Mr. Tessier, on September 19. Bear with me, please.

When veterans talk about 'disability benefits', we are primarily talking about the single and sole benefit that every veteran gets. There is only one. That is the monthly disability tax-free injury benefit. In the context of wartime service, that's $3,000. That's the maximum amount. It's a $3,000 tax-free amount of money that if you are 100% incapacitated, you will receive $3,000 tax free.

Later paragraphs read:

In the context of the Veterans Well-being Act, they've reduced that number to $1,200.

That monthly disability benefit is by far the most contentious piece of data when it comes to veterans. Again, a German bullet pays $3,000. A Taliban bullet pays $1,200.

My question to you, sir, is this: Is that true?

[Pierre Tessier]

I'll walk through both pensions. I think it's important.

Really, what's being referenced here is the difference between the Pension Act and the Veterans Well-being Act, and both acts are different. VAC legislation programs have evolved through the years, as I've said.

Persian Gulf veterans can fall under the Pension Act and receive the pension for disability under the Pension Act if they applied for the disability pension before April 1, 2006. They will qualify under the Veterans Well-Being Act for any other condition as a result of either their initial condition after this date or if they have a new condition that's resulted from that service. The key is April 1, 2006.

The Pension Act's disability pension covers two things. It grouped economic and non-economic factors into one pension, whereas the Veterans Well-being Act that came into force in April of 2006 separated those two items. In replacing or superseding the Pension Act, it became broader in its services. It has the pain and suffering compensation—which is in non-economic benefits—and it includes the additional pain and suffering for someone who has integration issues going back into civilian life. Those are the non-economic pieces.

The economic piece is primarily around the income replacement benefit. It is a benefit that provides 90% of a veteran's previous salary in the military if they cannot return to work after they've retired.

Those are the two main differences in how I would explain or capture that.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

I'm going to offer something else up to you and ask you if you agree with it.

Wartime service veterans and special duty veterans receive the same benefits for any service-related injury or illness under the Pension Act or the Veterans Well-being Act. The only exception would be the eligibility for long-term care.

Do you agree with that?

[Pierre Tessier]

I would say that under the Pension Act, war service veterans and anybody who applied through the Pension Act for a pension before April 1, 2006, would have access to the same disability pension. There would be some minor differences around long-term care.

Under the Veterans Well-being Act, as I've described, there's a disability pension, which is called “additional pain and suffering”; an IRB, or income replacement benefit; mental health benefits; and other items.

With respect to long-term care, for any veteran who comes forward and has a need, Veterans Affairs has taken care of them and continues to do that, and continues to look at long-term care into the future. As long-term care in our provincial jurisdictions evolves, we continue to look at this in ensuring that our veterans are well taken care of into the future.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Thank you, sir.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Tessier.

We'll go back to Mr. Desilets for two and a half minutes.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Girouard, in your opinion, is the Department of Defence in charge of developing the policy on service medals and the wearing of official and civilian uniforms?

[BGen Luc Girouard]

I'm going to ask Major‑General Simoneau to answer your question.

[MGen Erick Simoneau]

That's called delegating upward; that's perfectly fine.

Making sure that we recognize members effectively and appropriately is really part of Military Personnel Command's mandate.

That means it's up to us to manage all policies related to recognition. We do not take this task lightly. We're very serious about it. We have two committees, including a subcommittee that I chair. Those committees make recommendations to the chief of the defence staff, who then asks Rideau Hall to award those recognitions to our members.

As with pay and benefits, each operation is examined on its own merits, and time is a factor as well. Just because an operation starts at a certain level of remuneration and recognition doesn't mean that it won't change over time, because the risk level changes, too. We're seeing this very clearly in the Middle East and Europe right now, as the level of risk and difficulty changes. We adapt to the circumstances, and it's important to keep that conversation going.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

I'm coming back to you, Mr. Girouard.

You received three glowing commendations for your accomplishments in Afghanistan, the United Arab Emirates and Kuwait. Who gave you those commendations?

[BGen Luc Girouard]

They were awarded to me after each mission by the chain of command, by the military.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Were you awarded three Canadian medals by Canada?

[BGen Luc Girouard]

They're not medals. They're the little insignia I'm wearing here. They're not related to the mission as such, but rather to the actions carried out during that mission.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Is it the same thing for the commendation for Kuwait?

[BGen Luc Girouard]

It is.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Was that in connection with the liberation of Kuwait?

[BGen Luc Girouard]

It was not in connection with the liberation of Kuwait. It was during the mission against the Islamic State, at the support base that was in Kuwait. It wasn't during the Gulf War.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Okay. Was the liberation insignia given to you by Kuwait?

[BGen Luc Girouard]

No. I didn't serve in Kuwait in the Gulf War.