Veterans Affairs Committee on Oct. 7th, 2024

[MGen Erick Simoneau]

Active service is a construct that is tied to the Pension Act. The current legal legislative framework around an operation stems from the Veterans Well-being Act. The Minister of National Defence has been delegated authorities, as was mentioned by my colleague here, to approve special duty service, either through operation or area.

The whole construct of analyzing the risk and hardship to derive the proper compensation of benefits stems from the Veterans Well-being Act. It's not triggered by active service or not. It's rather an SDS, a special duty service, and that's what my colleague here could dive into as required, but it's an analysis of the risk and hardship for every operation to which the Government of Canada, through the GIC, sends us or deploys us towards.

[Wilson Miao, Liberal, Richmond Centre, BC]

Thank you for sharing that.

In comparison, if I were to compare the Persian Gulf War right now with the Korean War, what is the difference based on this?

[MGen Erick Simoneau]

The legal construct around those two operations is different. One, the Korean War, stems from the Pension Act, and every operation thereafter is covered through the Veterans Well-being Act, as I just described.

[Wilson Miao, Liberal, Richmond Centre, BC]

What is the reason the Gulf War is not included as active service?

[MGen Erick Simoneau]

Mr. Chair, this is a question that would be better answered by the Department of Justice. It's legislative in nature. All I can say is we have to operate within the bounds of current legislation, which is the Veterans Well-being Act.

[Wilson Miao, Liberal, Richmond Centre, BC]

Thank you.

Could you please share with us how officials from DND use the mission classification system to determine whether a typical service is a wartime service compared to a special duty service?

[MGen Erick Simoneau]

Mr. Chair, that's a little bit like the same question we received earlier. It all boils down to the current legislation that is in place that we must abide by. There's no wartime service terminology in the Veterans Well-being Act. There's rather a nomenclature of special duty area and operations, which we—

[Wilson Miao, Liberal, Richmond Centre, BC]

Is there no policy to address that?

[MGen Erick Simoneau]

Mr. Chair, this is not a matter of policy, but rather a matter of legislation in place, and we operate within the bounds of current legislation.

[Wilson Miao, Liberal, Richmond Centre, BC]

I'd like to direct my following question to the official from VAC.

In the sense of commemoration, right now, having spoken to our Gulf War veterans, they are not experiencing commemoration as they would if they were a Korean War veteran or took part in other special duty service. Can you share a little more on that piece with us?

[Amy Meunier, Assistant Deputy Minister, Commemoration and Public Affairs Branch, Department of Veterans Affairs]

Thank you. I'd be happy to answer that question.

I just wanted to thank those veterans who served in the Persian Gulf. I know that they've brought to the attention of all of us the need to increase recognition and commemoration of modern efforts. I appreciate their raising this and bringing this to our attention.

VAC has a 10-year commemorative strategic plan. It's available on our website. It sets out how we will go about commemorating and recognizing post-Korean conflicts. Just in the last year alone, in 2023, with regard specifically to the Persian Gulf, our Veterans' Week materials profiled the Gulf War and talked about other efforts in Asia. We also, this year, commemorated the 33rd anniversary of the end of the Persian Gulf. We tend to do larger ceremonies on fifth anniversaries.

For Veterans' Week this year, we also have more learning materials that profile Gulf War veteran Bettina Fuchs, who talks about her service there. It's an important period of time, given that it was the first time women served in combat roles during that era.

We also, if you look at the 10-year strategic plan referred to as “CAF around the world”, you'll see that each year we will focus on the region in the world where Canadians have served. Next year will be CAF in the Americas, and I'm really excited that in 2026 it will be CAF in the Middle East. I very much look forward to working alongside veterans of the Persian Gulf and others who served in the Middle East to find the appropriate ways to commemorate them and to bring more attention to their service so that Canadians can participate in that effort.

[Wilson Miao, Liberal, Richmond Centre, BC]

Thank you.

I have a quick question. There has been some discussion about recognition on the National War Memorial. Can you briefly walk us through how dates are recognized on the National War Memorial?

[Amy Meunier]

Sure. I'll just start by saying that the National War Memorial was unveiled in 1939 to commemorate Canada's response to the First World War. At the time, people probably were thinking that it would be the war to end all wars, but unfortunately that wasn't the case.

In 1982, it was rededicated to include the Second World War and the Korean War. However, over that period of time, it came to symbolize the sacrifice and service of all Canadians who served in the pursuit of peace and freedom.

In 2014, there were two additional inscriptions added, one of which is the inscription, “In Service to Canada”, and that's to recognize all those who have served in the past, who are serving today and who will serve in the future.

For all of the missions that are captured by “In Service to Canada”, if you look on the National War Memorial website, it lists all of the places where Canadians have served that fall under that banner.

If we look at the missions that are reflected on the memorial, which are inscribed individually, you have the South African War, World War I, World War II, the Korean War and Afghanistan. Arguably, those are the five largest missions with the greatest number of casualties, so those are inscribed individually.

In terms of the Persian Gulf, that would be captured under “In Service to Canada”. I do recognize that perhaps not everybody fully appreciates what that means, and I look forward to coming up with some options to make sure Canadians are clear about what that means.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Ms. Meunier.

We'll now give the floor to Luc Desilets for the next six minutes.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good morning, colleagues.

Thank you to our many guests for being with us today.

Mr. Tessier, in your opinion, which department is responsible for our two categories of veterans, those considered to be wartime veterans and those on special duty? Is it the Department of Veterans Affairs or the Department of National Defence?

[Pierre Tessier]

Thank you for the question.

I'm trying to understand the context between the two, because there is the categorization of missions—special duty area and special duty operation—and then the difference between the two acts.

I'll start with the two acts, and if that doesn't answer the question, we can then go to the SDA versus the other pieces.

As I said earlier, the SDA, or wartime service, as per the two acts, does put in place the insurance principle, which means 24-7 coverage during those operations. Whether that's in the Pension Act or the Veterans Well-being Act, that remains the same. The Veterans Well-being Act was put in place in April—

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Mr. Tessier, everyone has a definition in mind when it comes to categorizing the type of war. Who makes all those decisions, the Department of Veterans Affairs or the Department of National Defence?

[MGen Erick Simoneau]

I'd like to speak to that, if I may.

In my opinion, it's neither, because we act in accordance with the laws that are in effect. In 2006, we went from the Pension Act to the Veterans Well-being Act to update services for Canadian Armed Forces members and veterans. The new legislation was put in place for a number of reasons.

It's not really about the terms we use; it's about the tools available to support our members.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Be that as it may, there are two categories of veterans. Do I have that right?

[MGen Erick Simoneau]

I would say that there are currently two categories of veterans. There are those who served in the First World War, the Second World War or the Korean War. Those veterans are covered by one of the two acts. Veterans who served in other wars are covered by the other act.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Okay. Does that seem right to you?

[MGen Erick Simoneau]

That's not up to me.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

I appreciate that, and I was expecting that answer.

My understanding is that there are two categories of veterans. Someone who lost a leg in the Korean War will be entitled to specific compensation, but someone who lost their leg in the Gulf War will get 40% less. Do I have that right?

[Pierre Tessier]

I'd like to say something, if I may.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Sure.