Veterans Affairs Committee on Oct. 21st, 2024

[John Senior]

Commemoration drives recruiting. Commemoration drives morale. Commemoration drives everything for the Canadian Armed Forces.

If you look at other nations that invest more in commemoration rather than spending the money somewhere else on feel-good projects.... Without your soldiers, you don't have sovereignty. Without your soldiers, you don't have a military. Without your soldiers willing to lay down their lives, you're not going to be able to complete your missions.

Does that answer your question, sir?

[Wilson Miao, Liberal, Richmond Centre, BC]

Yes.

Do you think learning materials that are currently available from VAC help Canadians develop a better appreciation for the service and sacrifice made by CAF and veterans, and would you support the department in expanding these efforts?

[John Senior]

I would say that right now, at best, they're doing the job at a bare minimum level. I subscribe to the teachers' portion of the Veterans Affairs commemoration portfolio, and I give other material. It is a bit lacking. It needs to be updated and it could do a whole lot more.

It really needs to focus on the war veterans as well, because right now, it uses soft language like “conflict” or “interventions” and other soft words. You need to call things what they truly are. If it's a war, it's a war. If it's a peacekeeping mission, it's a peacekeeping mission. We can't water it down because it might hurt someone's feelings. We're giving guns and we have to make really big decisions about other people's lives. The commander here, as you saw beforehand, made really big decisions. We really have to call it what it is.

[Wilson Miao, Liberal, Richmond Centre, BC]

Would changing this terminology, between wartime service and special duty service, be better recognized by veterans for the operation that they served in?

[John Senior]

I resent what.... Again, it would drive recruiting. You're appealing to a very different audience nowadays. To appeal to this audience you're dealing with nowadays to come to the military.... They will have two or three or more careers in a lifetime.

When I first got in, it was a single career choice. I got into the military, and I was going to do it until the day I died. Nowadays, it's one of your life experiences, so in order to do it and make the changes, you really need to update that whole portfolio and keep it attractive.

[Wilson Miao, Liberal, Richmond Centre, BC]

If there is any recommendation you would like to share and put forward to support increased recruitment to the CAF, what would that be?

[John Senior]

Stop working on the technicalities. This whole thing here right now.... I'm still fuming. I'm sorry. I'm hot under the collar right now about war veteran stuff like this and the differences in benefits.

I'm sorry. What's the question again? I lost track.

[Wilson Miao, Liberal, Richmond Centre, BC]

Are there any recommendations that you have?

[John Senior]

Yes, it was about the recommendations.

The recommendations would, for sure, include the recognition of the Cold War veterans and the commemorations. We don't need any more massive statues. Those are nice, and having a place to go was really nice. The names on the walls are good, and that kind of stuff, but it's the actual commemoration and recognition of those days.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Miao.

I now give the floor to Mr. Luc Desilets for six minutes.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Senior, if you'd known about the difference in benefits before you enlisted, would you have—

I gather from your gestures that there's no interpretation. We're sending someone over to you now.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Just a minute, please.

Mr. Senior, the situation is fixed and the interpretation is working.

Mr. Desilets, I'd stopped the clock. You had used 12—

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

I'll start my six minutes from the top, Mr. Chair, will I not?

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

You had used 12 seconds of your time, Mr. Desilets, and you now have the floor again.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Okay.

Mr. Senior, if you had known that there would be a difference in the benefits, would you still have enlisted in the army?

[John Senior]

Yes, I would have. I am fifth-generation military, so regardless of the situation, I still would have joined. I do think it would have made a difference in my loyalty or commitment levels, for sure. As I said, in retrospect, right now I look back on my service and I feel a little bit of institution betrayal, to be quite honest.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Do you think that this betrayal that you and many others have experienced may impact young people's interest in enlisting? If people knew about it, would that have an impact?

[John Senior]

It's a fair question, and to be honest, I think I partially answered that with Mr. Miao as well.

I think people are going to be a lot more risk-averse going under certain missions. They'll try to find a way out of the mission, or they'll say, “My wife is pregnant, so I can't go now” or “Sorry, I just got a good job offer, so I'm going to leave.” When those kinds of reasons happen, it doesn't reflect the true reason why a person left the military, which is, “I am not willing to come back maimed for the rest of my life for the lack of commitment based on the government, so I'm going to keep my life safe.”

I do think it does play a drastic role in the level of commitment of the soldier to the mission, for sure.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

In your opinion, does the loss of a leg in Korea have the same monetary value as the loss of a leg in the Gulf War?

[John Senior]

Well, for me it would still be the same leg if it got lost, yes. However, the money from Veterans Affairs, or the services related to improving my life or the quality of my life, would change drastically between the new veterans charter and post the new veterans charter, for sure.

I can tell you there were people in Afghanistan on one day who were covered by previous benefits, and the very next day a buddy got hurt and is not covered the same. It creates quite the animosity between soldiers who fought in the same conflict.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

I understand that the difference is totally unacceptable.

In your opinion, is there a connection between the fact that veterans are getting insufficient benefits and homelessness?

[John Senior]

Yes, they are directly linked. They're one and the same. They're very, very linked.

The money coming in per month, or the services per month.... Again, a feeling of abandonment drives up homelessness. A feeling of institutional betrayal increases homelessness because all these questions regurgitate through your head on a regular basis: “What did I do this for? Why did I?” It attacks your esteem, your soul and that kind of stuff for sure, so they are linked.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Did you calculate the amounts you lost or did not receive, as a result of the difference between the two regimes?

[John Senior]

I don't want that headache. I don't want to know the disparity, because I need to be able to sleep at night, so no, I'm not going to do that. I know it is big, and if I did know, I would probably get even more angry. The last thing you need is to have 15,000 or 32,000 veterans—however many people fought in Afghanistan—really, really angry, more so than they would be in the first place.

No, I didn't calculate that, and I'm probably never going to do that, sir. It's a good question, though.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

I don't have enough time left, but I could ask many other questions.

Mr. Chair, if I may, I'd like to ask our beloved Library of Parliament analyst a question.

Mr. Paré, I really enjoyed reading your notes today and I'd like you to tell us what you meant when you wrote: “The Committee could, for example, recommend that the designation ‘overseas combat operation’ be added to that of ‘special duty’.”

Could you also tell us how that would resolve the problem or permit some forward movement on this file?