Veterans Affairs Committee on Nov. 18th, 2024

[Bryan May, Liberal, Cambridge, ON]

I understand Mr. Richards has time and he can choose to use that time, but we're missing critical content here in these questions. There's not a question that's been asked when Mr. Richards has not interrupted the witnesses. I think we're doing a disservice to our witnesses by not actually listening to the answers.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

I stopped the time.

I understand that.

Listen, I know that I said six minutes for each group, but at the same time, we have decorum. We have questions and answers. I used to say that if you have a question that lasts one minute, you can allow about a minute for the witnesses or witness to reply, please.

As a last thing, we have our interpreters there, so if we have it like that, then it's chaos. It will be tough for them, so please....

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

With that, hearing that you believe that it's not the case that your programs are inadequate, are you saying that you believe that these indigenous veterans are incorrect in having this low assessment of VAC?

[Amy Meunier]

No, I'm not saying they're incorrect. What I'm saying is that it's our responsibility to make sure that indigenous veterans and their communities and families are well aware of the programs so that they can avail themselves of those programs and that we can make sure, when there's an indigenous veteran or service person in need, that they know who to reach out to quickly. It can be anybody at Veterans Affairs Canada or someone within their community, which is why we're trying to build partnerships not just at the individual level but also at a community level.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Okay. You're of the position that the programs themselves are adequate, and you just need to do more to communicate the programs. Is that what I'm hearing?

[Amy Meunier]

I think that the programs are very effective, but if people are not participating in them or aware of them, then they can't benefit from them.

In my opening remarks, I also made mention of greater access to traditional and cultural healing, which has been a priority for the department, based on feedback from indigenous veterans.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

I'll point out, Chair, that we asked for the officials to come at the end of this study and respond to what we've heard from veterans. That is not, in fact, what has occurred here.

I will simply indicate that I certainly hope you're going to be listening to the study, because I think what we've heard—in the bit we've heard so far—is that this is not the case. I don't think indigenous veterans feel they're being served appropriately. I hope you will be paying close attention to this study and that you'll make yourselves available to answer to the inadequacies we may hear about from veterans as we go forward in this study.

Again, I ask that you please provide information about whether any of VAC's benefits are income-tested against other programs that indigenous veterans may receive through their indigenous heritage. I would certainly indicate that it is absolutely inappropriate if veterans of indigenous heritage are having their benefits from VAC—or any other income—reduced as a result of their heritage. That is completely inappropriate.

You talked a lot about historic wrongs. There are current wrongs happening. I certainly hope your government is paying attention to those.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you very much, Mr. Richards.

Before I go to another member, you can see that I let you ask questions and answer. However, we all know that questions and answers should be addressed through the chair. If I have to, I will be strict about that. I let it go, guys.

Now let's go to Mr. Miao for six minutes.

[Wilson Miao, Liberal, Richmond Centre, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all of the witnesses for being here and online today.

Through you, Mr. Chair, I'd like to address my first question to Ms. Meunier.

What steps is VAC taking to ensure the contributions of indigenous and Black veterans are properly recognized in Canadian military history and public commemoration?

[Amy Meunier]

Thank you very much for that question.

As you know, recognition is a key component of veterans' well-being. It can come in many forms: benefits and services, honouring and recognizing, and storytelling.

With regard to indigenous or diverse veterans, we're expanding that recognition. If you look on our website, you'll see dedicated pages telling the true history of what occurred among under-represented groups. We've built, over the last number of years, quite a few educational packages specifically relating to Black veterans, women veterans, 2SLGBTQI+ veterans and other marginalized groups.

We also have our commemorative partnership program. In 2021, the terms and conditions were changed to increase the eligible amount for projects that focus on commemorating or recognizing indigenous veterans. We're quite pleased with the significant take-up. As I mentioned in my opening remarks, a significant amount of money has gone into communities to tell that story.

As well, on behalf of the Department of National Defence, we have a dedicated stream of programming that focuses on Black veterans, with an emphasis on the No. 2 Construction Battalion and others, in order to make sure we're telling the story of their fantastic service. Perhaps these weren't as prevalent or as easy to find in the past, so there is a big effort on our part to make sure the information is readily available.

[Wilson Miao, Liberal, Richmond Centre, BC]

Thank you for sharing that with us.

Mr. Chair, I'd like to go to Mr. Pedersen, who is online.

This is related to a recent witness at this committee who was very complimentary of the work of VAC's aboriginal liaison officers. The witness said, “I wouldn't have been able to access some of the programs that are available if it weren't for these liaison officers”. That's a testament to the work you and your engagement team have done and are currently doing.

Could you share some insights with our committee about this team, its composition and the impacts you have seen through this work?

[CWO Joel Pedersen, Senior Operations Manager, Indigenous Veterans Engagement Team, Department of Veterans Affairs]

Yes, thank you.

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.

[Witness spoke in Cree and provided the following translation:]

Hello. My name is Joel Pedersen. I'm from Saskatoon.

[English]

My name is Joel Pedersen. It's an absolute pleasure to be with you here today.

Thank you for the kind words, sir.

Mr. Chair, with regard to the questions asked so far, I'd like to also just indicate that we've got a lot of space to cover and a lot of people to meet with. We're doing a lot of heavy lifting here.

Our team is composed, right now, of three persons. The first one is in Victoria. She has been with Veterans Affairs for a number of years and knows the ins and outs really well. The second member is from Edmonton; he's a former Canadian Armed Forces member as well, and has been working with Veterans Affairs Canada for a number of years. The remainder of our team works out in P.E.I. and assists us quite a lot with the administrative portion.

What we've seen over the last year and a half is a lot of engagement. As Madame Meunier mentioned, we've been able to meet with current serving members and retired members of the Canadian Armed Forces and the RCMP. For the majority of indigenous members whom we have been able to work with, we've been able to facilitate and assist them with their questions and also assist them with their files. We're finding that a lot of the engagement with leadership in the first nations, Métis and Inuit communities has been really significant and we look forward to continuing these meaningful engagements.

I'd like to also just add, Mr. Chair, that when we're talking about TRC and UNDRIP, we really are doing some heavy lifting here. I think if there's anything that's moving, that's what we're doing, and we're really honoured to be a part of this.

If anyone has a question, please go ahead.

[Wilson Miao, Liberal, Richmond Centre, BC]

To follow up with that, has the work of the engagement team helped identify any gaps or issues that could then be relayed to other parts of the department so that they could be looked at or, hopefully, resolved in the future?

[CWO Joel Pedersen]

It's a great question. We work also with the area office. I actually just got off, before this meeting started, with the area office in Winnipeg and the Southern Chiefs' Organization, which looks after close to 34 first nations in Manitoba. Connecting and liaising with them provides them with the capacity to meet with the community's needs. I feel that we're really augmenting what a lot of the area offices are doing, but we're also providing some professional development and some real insight as to how we network with the indigenous communities in a meaningful way.

[Wilson Miao, Liberal, Richmond Centre, BC]

Thank you. Does the engagement team also travel to remote communities to engage directly with indigenous veterans? If it does, can you talk about the value of those experiences?

[CWO Joel Pedersen]

Lee-Ann Lavoie is out of Vancouver, and she does the majority of the very far north. She's been to all of the far north communities, meeting with the Ranger patrols, Ranger patrol leadership, and with the RCMP detachments. David and I criss-cross across the country, and all three of us have facilitated commemoration events, with the last one being for the 60th anniversary of the mission in Cyprus.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Miao.

I will now give the floor to the second vice-chair of the committee, Mr. Luc Desilets.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon, colleagues.

I'd like to thank our three guests for being here and sharing their knowledge with us.

Ms. Pham, are you the director of case managers for a given region of Canada, or for all of Canada?

[Nathalie Pham]

For all of Canada.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Very well.

Are there many indigenous or Black people working as case managers?

[Nathalie Pham]

Yes, a number of our case managers are indigenous or Black.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Roughly what percentage do you think that is?

[Nathalie Pham]

I don't have that information with me, but we can find it for you. I have to say that our workforce is constantly evolving, but we have indigenous and Black representation in each of our offices.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

We would appreciate it if you could send us that data. It would be quite relevant to our study.

Do case management officers who have to work with indigenous or Black people without being indigenous or Black themselves receive specific training to manage this type of case?

[Nathalie Pham]

Yes, absolutely. Our case managers work with veterans taking their unique circumstances into account. So whether it's a Black veteran, an indigenous veteran or a veteran with specific issues, our people are trained to give them the necessary support.

We are also forging ties with the various communities. For example, in Nova Scotia, our case managers liaised with the Black Managers Association of Nova Scotia and took part in training on trauma in the Black community. Soon, they will also take part in training with the indigenous community to better understand its culture.

This is training taken by our case managers on an ongoing basis to improve their tool box.