Veterans Affairs Committee on Dec. 12th, 2024

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

I find that very interesting.

It is rare for people to call us, us MPs, to say that the department isn't causing them any problems—it is giving them their benefits and compensation payments.

Generally, when people come to us, it is to tell us that something is not working—they are having trouble getting the money they are owed or getting the services they are entitled to.

In your case, did you have any special needs after leaving the Canadian Armed Forces? When you left in 2019, did you have any contact with Veterans Affairs Canada for particular reasons or to obtain special services?

[Bouchard Dulyx Dorval]

I think I had needs as a member of the Canadian Forces. The solution was already there.

And now, when I request services, like my pension—after all, I am 60 years old—I get them.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

How old are you?

[Bouchard Dulyx Dorval]

I'm 64.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

I ask you that because I don't believe you. You look a lot younger than that.

[Voices]

Ha, ha!

[Bouchard Dulyx Dorval]

When I left the Canadian Forces, I think everything was already arranged when I approached the department. I just had to say what I needed.

I can't speak for anyone else, but, personally, I am really fine.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Dorval.

It is refreshing to hear you. As I said, we never hear about things going well. We always hear about things going badly.

Your career was not without obstacles, but knowing that you are doing well now, that you get speedy and favourable responses to your requests, is nonetheless refreshing. I appreciate your taking the time to come and testify before us today.

Once again, Mr. Dorval, I thank you for your service to the country. That is something for which I have enormous respect. Thank you.

Thank you for coming to see us today.

[Bouchard Dulyx Dorval]

Thank you, Mr. Champoux.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Champoux.

Mr. Dorval, there will be one last speaker. This time, Rachel Blaney will be asking you questions.

The floor is yours for six minutes, Ms. Blaney.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank you, Mr. Dorval, for your information today. It's already been really helpful.

I thought some of the questions you were being asked about systemic racism and policies were interesting. I heard you say you were always at war with someone, doors were always being closed, the chain of command was very used to looking at you file and you were alone doing a task that was meant for two. To me, those are very good examples of systemic racism. It's built right in the system, and it's often invisible except to those who experience it. Thank you for putting on the record so clearly what that experience was like for you. That's extremely helpful.

I have a question for you. You said that someone—I'm not sure who it was—asked you to stay to help other Black service members. Could you tell us a bit about who asked you to do that and what that labour was like for you? What kind of work did you do in that area?

[Bouchard Dulyx Dorval]

The reason was that I was able to write and able to make a good argument. I knew how to write. At least, I had that skill. Ordinarily, there were people who sometimes made decisions that went against me, but when I presented my arguments, my report was a lot better. That helped me.

I always fought, and I always won, although a lot of others were not able to stay. To pass the test, I had help from a lieutenant. He helped me, him too, because he was kept in a lieutenant position for nine years. He was working in the same situation as me, and the path was also blocked for him. However, he had time to do a doctorate in administration over those nine years.

We worked together. He was the one who submitted my case, because he was an officer, while I was a corporal. I did the writing, and he submitted my cases. He was the one who told me that I had fought a good fight, but there were other people who would find themselves in my situation. He told me that I might be a good guide for those people, since I knew how to write and compose complaints.

I also worked on that skill, which was latent, over time. I was a warrior with a pen. I have continued to write. It is what I have done all my life. I have fought to keep my place.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

That's an excellent skill to have, being a warrior with a pen. I'm really happy you had that, and I'm happy you were able to share it, although I think it shouldn't have been your responsibility. The system should have done better so that you wouldn't have had to fight so hard, but thank you for explaining that to us.

You said again and again that you were told you couldn't talk to your family about your grievance. I'm wondering if you could expand on that a bit. Who said you couldn't, and what was the rationale?

Not being able to talk to people you trust about a hard thing must be hard on your mental health. I'm wondering if your mental health was impacted by having to deal with this so consistently.

[Bouchard Dulyx Dorval]

I'm sorry, I explained it badly. It wasn't that I was told I couldn't do it.

When I went on a course at Borden for two and a half months, I had to take my test at 11:00 p.m., because they knew they were going to fail me. As well, the camp was dismantled on Saturday, and Monday was when graduation was happening. I was pushed aside, I was given the test as late as possible so I couldn't pass the test. But I didn't fail the test. The person who did that to me was happy to go on site to pick up all my things and put them in my car for me to return to Quebec City.

I cried while I was driving to Quebec City. I didn't dare tell my family why I was there and how I got there.

Monday morning, however, when I appeared in my battalion, Sergeant Vézina asked me what I was doing there. He told me I should be at graduation with the others. I told him I would not be there. He asked me why and I told him I had not passed the test. He was astonished and he told me I had gone to Borden to learn and when I came back I would be able to work. He said this was a formality and they had no right to do that to me. That was when they called the school and the whole process started.

Nobody told me not to talk about it, but I felt that it was shameful, humiliating and crappy to have to go through that as a soldier. In fact, when I was on an operation, some people didn't even call me by my title, they didn't call me "Corporal Duval". They called me "the Haitian". They flat out called me "the Haitian". It was revolting.

I was called all sorts of names. The only time I was really in the spotlight was when we played sports, when we played soccer, because I was good. I was the one who scored all the goals. That was when they asked me to play for the team. I showed off then. I went to the washroom, because I knew that was where I belonged. And then, all the others...

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

I'm sorry, but I'm almost done.

Just to make sure I have it correct, was General Tremblay the one who helped, spoke to people and said, “Enough”? Is that correct?

[Bouchard Dulyx Dorval]

Yes, that's right. I will never forget that name.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Ms. Blaney.

Mr. Dorval, I would like to ask you a question.

In 19 years of service, were you ever sent outside Canada?

[Bouchard Dulyx Dorval]

Yes, I went to Haiti. That was where I got called "the Haitian". I was able to help out with some things because I knew people there. When we arrived, all the soldiers wanted to talk to their family, but we had to line up at the end of the day to get access to a phone. So I managed to find phones for everybody, and that made things easier for the soldiers.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you.

During those 19 years, did you participate in operations outside Canada in countries other than Haiti, your country of origin?

[Bouchard Dulyx Dorval]

No, I was supposed to participate in an operation, but I had injured my shoulder. My things had been sent to Afghanistan, but I had to stay behind to recuperate.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Dorval.

You paved the way, as some of your colleagues did, and that was not wasted. Again, thank you for serving in the Canadian Forces. I wish you happy holidays.

That concludes this part of the meeting.

I want to thank you all for your contribution to this study of the experience of indigenous and Black veterans.

I will suspend the meeting for a few minutes.