That's no problem at all.
Evidence of meeting #14 for Veterans Affairs in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was pension.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #14 for Veterans Affairs in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was pension.
A recording is available from Parliament.
2:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Emmanuel Dubourg
Thank you very much.
I'm giving the floor to Mr. Desilets now, for two and a half minutes.
Go ahead, Mr. Desilets.
2:50 p.m.
Bloc
Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
I believe that any legislative measures that we take ought to be based on values, and the principles of justice and equity. Everyone appears to agree that the current situation is totally unacceptable. It's discriminatory. Not only that, but this approach is antiquated. Once again, it's the women who are taking the hit. As we've already said, 90% of the people targeted are women, not men. That's something that truly upsets me.
In 2008, the Treasury Board estimated the value of the measure, meaning the adjustment of this iniquitous situation, at approximately $1 billion. A study by the chief actuary of the Government of Canada was published last year I believe, showing that the amount was $300 million. That's clearly not the same, and the difference is enormous. I continue to believe that in terms of real figures, it's difficult to come up with solutions.
Mr. Gill, I am delighted about your proposal, but if the Department of National Defence, which administers these funds, were to refuse this measure, how would you react?
I'm also wondering if it's up to you to react. Shouldn't these solutions be coming from the department?
You have about one minute to reply.
2:50 p.m.
Co-Chair, Surviving Spouses Pension Fairness Coalition
If a solution like the one we are proposing were to be denied, like all the others, I don't know what could be done. This has been going on for years. The government representatives and the opposition parties would have to get together at a kind of summit. All the parties would have to be represented. This annoying problem could be looked at through a multipartite rather than a partisan approach.
That's my suggestion.
2:50 p.m.
Bloc
Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
That's very interesting. But there would have to be some follow-through. We would all like this to happen quickly. It's a horrible aberration. It's all the more frustrating for legislators to see it come up yet again, as Mr. Caputo mentioned earlier, in 2015 and 2018, I believe, in the ministers' mandate letters. It's upsetting. The mistake is probably that it should have appeared in the mandate letter to the Minister of Defence rather than to the Minister of Veterans Affairs.
I didn't see your signal, Mr. Chair.
2:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Emmanuel Dubourg
Thank you, Mr. Desilets. I know that you're familiar with it. I hid it deliberately.
Ms. Blaney, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.
This will be the final intervention with the current witnesses.
2:50 p.m.
NDP
Rachel Blaney NDP North Island—Powell River, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I have two questions.
The first one is for Patrick, Kelly, Tracy and Kevin.
We know there are studies going on from Veterans Affairs Canada on this issue to address their veterans survivors fund. Have you ever been invited to participate in this study?
Could I start with you, Pat?
2:50 p.m.
NDP
Rachel Blaney NDP North Island—Powell River, BC
Thank you for that. That's very helpful.
It will be interesting to figure out where they're getting their list from.
My last question today is for Tracy.
I am wondering if you could tell the committee whether you were able to go to work today. If you were not able to, why is that?
2:55 p.m.
As an Individual
I went to work this morning. I rushed home so I could be here—not for you, but for Kevin. This is not easy for him to do, so thankfully, my boss gave me the opportunity to come home.
That's half a day for which I won't be paid. It's twofold: Yes, I can go, but I'm not being paid. His mental safety is more important than that, if that makes sense.
2:55 p.m.
NDP
Rachel Blaney NDP North Island—Powell River, BC
It does make sense.
Could I hear a bit more on this issue? I think this is so important. For the partners of people who served our country in whatever department they did, there may be particular challenges they are experiencing. Part of appreciating that sacrifice, as a country, is recognizing the impact it has.
When I listen to this.... Maybe, in 1901, there was a good intention to protect. I don't think it was, really. I still think it was sexist in 1901, but it was to protect vulnerable men in a situation where they may have needed to be protected.
What we're seeing now is the impact on people like you, Tracy, who are spending a great deal of their time supporting someone who has saved lives and supported our country. These are the ramifications, and I'm—
2:55 p.m.
As an Individual
That's correct. I'm literally supporting him through this, as he supports me.
I'm trying financially as best I can. I just started this job. It's more that he supported the country and now the government has turned its back. I am here, holding the bag, to hold him up. I am his buffer. I am his sounding board. I'm the one who jumps in when he starts flaring up. I'm the one who has to smooth the waters. It's tiring. I still have to go to work. I still have four kids to take care of. I am losing myself. I am getting chipped away.
It's not fair—I'm sorry, sir—to put a time on someone's grief, on someone's pain, on someone's circumstances. It's very difficult. That's all I can really say.
Thank you.
2:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Emmanuel Dubourg
Thank you so much.
Thank you, Ms. Blaney.
On behalf of the committee members, I'd like to thank all the witnesses who took part in today's meeting. Your comments were very heartfelt. Thanks to you, we'll be able to produce a report that contains some recommendations. That should make it possible to deal with the situation. I must say that we were all moved deeply by the discussion of the "gold digger" epithet. That's really disappointing.
On behalf of myself and the committee members, I'd like to thank you for taking part in the meeting. I'd also like to thank Ms. Evanshen for having taken leave to come and testify before the committee.
And just a reminder that Mr. Patrick Boudreau, Ms. Kelly Vankoughnett, Ms. Tracy Lee Evanshen and Mr. Kevin Sewell all testified as individuals.
Lastly, I'd like to thank Mr. Maurice Gill, the co-president of the Surviving Spouses Pension Fairness Coalition, for having suggested a number of options.
Once again, I'd like to thank you all and would ask you to…
2:55 p.m.
NDP
Rachel Blaney NDP North Island—Powell River, BC
Chair, if I may, I just want to let you know that Kevin has passed on the email address of the American major he was speaking about. We'll make sure, of course, that the clerk has it.
2:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Emmanuel Dubourg
Perfect.
There's one intervention before we close and then go to another panel.
2:55 p.m.
As an Individual
I'd just like to say thank you very much. I sure hope you all put your heads together and stop just running around the tree and not coming up with some kind of solution to support everybody.
Kevin, thank you for your time. Tracy, thank you for supporting him. We appreciate you both.
2:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Emmanuel Dubourg
Thank you so much.
You will be able to see our report. I think we're going to be able to present that before the end of the current session.
Thank you, everyone, and have a good afternoon.
We're going to take a break for five minutes in order to allow the new witnesses to come to the front.
I am suspending the meeting for five minutes.
3:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Emmanuel Dubourg
We're resuming the meeting.
We can now proceed to the second panel of this meeting. I will give a quick reminder to our witnesses that, before speaking, please wait until I recognize you.
If you are asked a question directly, feel free to answer it without my asking you to do so.
If you are on the video conference, please click on the microphone icon to unmute yourself. For those in the room, your microphone will be controlled as normal. When speaking, please speak slowly and clearly. When you are not speaking, your mike should be on mute.
I'd like to welcome our witnesses, who are from Statistics Canada.
We are welcoming Josée Bégin, Director General, Labour Market, Education and Socio-Economic Well-Being, and Andrew Heisz, Director, Centre for Income and Socioeconomic Well-being Statistics.
You will have five minutes for your opening address. After that, the committee members would like you to ask you some questions.
Ms. Bégin, you have five minutes for your opening address.
