Veterans Affairs Committee on May 20th, 2022

[Dr. Eric Ping Hung Li]

I would say that two of the veterans fell into the “married after 60” category, and then we had three veterans who were in a relationship. They are 60-plus and currently in a relationship, and they struggle with that current policy. Then we also did a little bit of comparison. There are the survivors who marry the veterans before the veterans turn 60. There were five individuals who fell into that category.

I would say that most of them are middle income or low income. They have lower incomes. One of the reasons.... We have a few veterans or survivors, which is what we call the veterans who do have some injuries. Based on the surveys, they're not going to get a full-time job or they retire early because of different types of physical and mental disabilities.

Having said that, they are not in the high-income category. I would say that's my sample size.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you. That's really helpful.

One of your recommendations was to consider removing the age limit, which I really appreciate. I'm just wondering. Did you conclude that the marriage after 60 clause should be eliminated in order to treat spouses fairly and recognize their personal sacrifice?

[Dr. Eric Ping Hung Li]

I would say that all the military spouses sacrifice in many ways. Based on my studies or interviews with these 10 individuals, to some extent they're very upset about that age limit. It sounds arbitrary to them. They've said, “If I get married at the age of 59, what's the difference if I get married at the age of 61? Why are you setting up these boundaries or these limitations?” I talk about seeing them and hearing them saying that.

Why would they put themselves in that position? It's a very strong component in terms of putting themselves or their partner in a disadvantaged position. I can say that's why my recommendation is that we need to consider removing this age limitation, yes.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

I find that interesting. You talked about the attachment people have with being called a gold digger. I've actually talked to a lot of people who are survivors—or who are planning to be survivors, though that's a hard thing to say—and on that impact of being called a gold digger, I've been really surprised. That really affects them. I'm just wondering if you saw that as well.

[Dr. Eric Ping Hung Li]

Yes, two participants really found that, especially in the disparities if the spouse is a little bit younger than the veteran, 10 years or 20 years younger. When they get together they worry about receiving that social stigma. One said they were getting away from that stigma because they had a full-time job, but I can definitely see that it is kind of surrounding them with the social stigma.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

My last question—and I only have few seconds—is around streamlining access to benefits on the VAC website. Could you tell us a little more about that and what challenges these participants had in accessing these services?

[Dr. Eric Ping Hung Li]

I would use this term—that they don't have the “literacy” to navigate through all the government websites. I know that there are a lot of programs supporting them, but the challenge is that they might be 60 or 70 years old. Every month they're getting a paycheque or a cheque from the government office and that is great, but suddenly you're putting these older adults in a situation...and I think that's the challenging part. We have to streamline. I'm thinking about how to really support them and thinking about that demographic of that person who is 70 years old plus. We have to find ways to help them.

Thank you for your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Dr. Li.

Thank you, Ms. Blaney.

Now let's go to the second round. I would like to invite my honourable member Fraser Tolmie to begin his five minutes, please.

[Fraser Tolmie, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

Mr. Chair, it's great to see you again.

I thank all the presenters today.

I have to say that we've sat through numerous meetings concerning this subject. We've heard a lot of testimony, and to finish this off with you is great. I want to say thank you for your service. Thank you for what you're doing. I appreciate it.

Mr. Li, as I go through your report, it's been highlighted that you met with seven people. We heard from Statistics Canada that there are close to 6,000 veterans or survivors that are currently affected by this. Before you started doing your report, I'm sure you had something envisioned in your mind. How many people did you think you were actually going to be able to connect with over this?

[Dr. Eric Ping Hung Li]

We briefly worked with the Veterans Affairs office communications department, and we identified—I forget the exact number—over 200 individuals. We sent them invitations to participate, but it turned out just a few came back to us. In that way we identified some addresses to direct to those individuals, but we tried very hard. We were constantly going back to different people, but it was during the lockdown period during 2020.

I'm happy to continue if I have a chance, because I believe there are more people out there waiting to share their voices, but we had time constraints with the project funding. Again we tried for data, but it was at the beginning of COVID. We even approached seniors facilities in Edmonton that serve the veterans community, but they didn't accept research projects because they were running out of staff just to manage their everyday operations.

[Fraser Tolmie, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

Please don't take this line of questioning as reflective on your performance.

What I find that I'm having a hard time bringing together here is that, through personal testimonies, this is a very sensitive subject for a lot of people, so when they have an opportunity to speak to it and get engaged I find it very.... Like I said, I can't reconcile the fact that those numbers don't seem to line up.

Thank you for that. As I said, it's not reflective on you. I'm just concerned about the engagement on this report.

Is your report public or has it just been disclosed to the veterans affairs committee?

[Dr. Eric Ping Hung Li]

I submitted the full version of the report to CIMVHR, so they have my.... I don't think I made it public, but I'm happy to share the entire report with the committee here.

[Fraser Tolmie, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

Just kind of springboarding from those, how long did it take for you to prepare this report and, apart from what we've just discussed, were there any other challenges that you feel maybe impacted the information that's been presented?

[Dr. Eric Ping Hung Li]

I would say it took us in total six months or more, around that, to reach out to the participants or to recruit the participants. To interview them usually takes around an hour to two maximum. Our conversations are online. It took us probably two to three months to analyze all the data.

Our report mainly captures the voices from the interviewees we had and then we report that and gather those voices into different themes. In the full report, we cover a little bit more because we're also covering veterans transition patterns, but that would be covered by the abstract of the version I presented you all today.

[Fraser Tolmie, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

Thank you.

I know, Mr. Chair, I'm probably going to get red-carded fairly quickly here so....

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Exactly, you have 15 seconds.

[Fraser Tolmie, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

The only other comment I have is for Mr. Crabtree.

Do you think Verstappen has a chance this weekend in Spain? I saw that he's a big F1 fan. I see that in the background.

[Simon Crabtree]

I love where the conversation went here. I think he's got the momentum. We'll leave it at that.

[Fraser Tolmie, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

All right.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

We'll see. Thank you, Mr. Tolmie.

Now I'd like to invite Mr. Wilson Miao for five minutes, please.

[Wilson Miao, Liberal, Richmond Centre, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses attending today's study. It's very important for us to realize how much our veterans have done for us, and I really think this study will allow us to move further and support these veterans.

I'd like to direct the following question through the chair to Ms. Tattersall regarding the survivor benefit.

Can you briefly explain to us what the application process is, since this is an optional funding application that veterans can apply for?

[BGen Virginia Tattersall]

I can't speak to the mechanism in terms of the specific forms, but the process is that, if a member does marry or enter into a relationship, they must apply for an optional survivor benefit within one year of their marriage. That application for the benefit is done through the pension centre, which will then provide them.... It starts with a query to the pension centre, and then the pension centre will provide them with the appropriate forms.

I apologize. That was not a question that I came prepared to give you any more specifics on other than that.

[Wilson Miao, Liberal, Richmond Centre, BC]

Thank you for what you have provided so far.

Further to that question, how much does the applicant have to contribute in order to allow the survivor benefit fund for their spouse?

[BGen Virginia Tattersall]

It is the annuitant's decision as to how much they want to create as a benefit. They can choose that it be 30%, 40% or 50%. It is their choice. It is not a fixed amount by which they have to prescribe.

[Wilson Miao, Liberal, Richmond Centre, BC]

Thank you very much.

Is it true that after an applicant passes away after 60, let's say, the surviving spouse will not be eligible to collect that funding afterwards?