Veterans Affairs Committee on Feb. 1st, 2022

[Rechie Valdez, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Thank you, Minister.

In December of 2020, the Assembly of First Nations announced the creation of a first nations council. Do you have any outreach strategy updates to veterans or indigenous veterans and their families living in northern communities?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Again, I appreciate that question.

As you're fully aware, there's much more being done in the northern areas for veterans and with first nations and other groups. We have the Métis organization, for example. We put $30 million into a program just to make sure they were fully able to address the problems within the Métis organizations and to make sure they could properly put together programs to make sure that the veterans and what they did would be fully appreciated. It was to make sure we have ceremonies to show what an important role they played.

As I indicated from the start, so many different groups of people have been involved in freedom and democracy in this country. It's so vitally important that every group is recognized and that we pay tribute to them because of what they have done, so that you and I can sit here and discuss the issues.

That's what we're trying to do at Veterans Affairs Canada and that's what we will continue to do. I appreciate your question.

[Rechie Valdez, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Thank you, Minister.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Minister.

Thank you, MP Valdez.

It is now the second vice-chair Mr. Desilets' turn to ask questions to the Minister and deputy minister.

Mr. Desilets, you have six minutes.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Minister, it's a pleasure to see and hear from you again.

As I told you the last time we met, I am going to keep pressing you on the same issue, and it appears that some of my colleagues agree that it's necessary.

We've had the opportunity to talk about the disability benefit claims backlog on several occasions, and in particular, the fact that the francophones do not necessarily receive the same service as anglophones. I heard you say in your speech earlier that this was improving. You also told me things were improving on May 10. At the time, I was waiting for the figures, and I still don't have them. On November 22, I had the chance to speak with Mr. Harris, a very nice person much like yourself, and I asked him for the figures again. We also spoke on December 2. As it turns out, I still have yet to receive anything.

Would it be possible to get some tangible numbers?

I would be so proud to be able to congratulate you and tell you that I really like you and you are doing a great job because the backlog of claims has gone from 21,572 to 9,200.

Why is this information being kept secret? If you've been successful, that's great. I will congratulate you and we can move on to something else.

I will let you respond, Mr. Minister.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you very much, Luc. I appreciated very much our conversation and the direction you gave me. Of course, I can give you some stats. In 2021-22 the average turnaround time for female applications was 36.5 weeks and 33 weeks for male applications. For comparison, in 2021 the average turnaround time was 43.2 weeks for female applications and 36.3 weeks for male ones. Now of course we discussed the francophone issue, and I addressed it when I spoke, but in 2021-22 the average turnaround time was 32.2 weeks for anglophone applications and 41.1 weeks for francophone applications. For comparison in—

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Mr. Minister, forgive me for cutting in.

I hear you and I heard what you said about it, and what Mr. Harris said.

Could these figures be sent to the committee? You are repeating them out loud to me, but I'm a visual person. I need to see the progression.

Can you commit to getting those numbers to the committee?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Luc, yes I will, but it's important to note that in both figures I gave you—both in the male and female, and anglophone and francophone applications—it is getting better. It is not where it should be, but we will continue to work.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

That's wonderful. We want the same thing, Mr. Minister. We want things to improve, when it comes to the backlog of claims, francophones and women. If you're a woman and francophone, you could find yourself in a tough spot.

I only want the numbers for those groups, please, so I can be sure everything is fine. My colleagues would benefit from that as well.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Luc, the answer is yes. I would like the deputy to give you a minute here on this very issue.

[Paul Ledwell, Deputy Minister, Department of Veterans Affairs]

Thank you, Mr. Minister.

Thank you for your question, Mr. Desilets.

We're more than willing to share the exact details and numbers with you. We've had a lot of encouragement to address this challenge with respect to women and francophones, and we're in the process of doing that. We want to see results within a few months, but in the meantime, we are ready to provide the numbers so we can—

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

You can see that makes me very happy. That's what we want. We're all working towards the same goal: helping veterans.

I have one last question for you, Mr. Minister. The basis for our analysis hasn't changed: it's about the fabled four months.

Do you think four months is a reasonable turnaround time for our veterans?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Luc, what we're going to do is to make sure that we speed up all of the process. What we have to do is make sure that our veterans are responded to and receive the benefits they're entitled to in an appropriate time.

We are working towards that, but we're not there yet. We will continue to work towards that. You have been a major asset in helping me get there. I appreciate it. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Minister and Mr. Desilets.

For the next six minutes, we have Rachel Blaney.

You have the floor, Ms. Blaney.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you so much, Chair.

I just want to express my appreciation to the chair for the little signs that give us the timeline. I really appreciate that, so I just want to acknowledge that.

Minister, it's always good to have you. I always enjoy this time, probably a little more than I should, but I do want to ask you about the marriage after 60 clause. You know we've had this conversation several times. You know I've put forward a bill, because I think this is something that needs to be dealt with immediately. I'm really curious about the reality that fixing this was in the mandate letters for the minister's position in 2015 and 2017, and then afterwards it disappeared. I'm a little concerned and don't want that to get lost.

You know, the reality is that we worked with a veteran, a veteran who had plans to get married, and when COVID hit, of course, like every other Canadian, he couldn't follow through on that until a later date. The problem is that he was going to get married when he was 59, and because of COVID he couldn't get married until he was 60. That means, of course, that his partner will not be able to access any pension supports after his passing.

I'm also very concerned because DND now has on their website a notice that tells members, by the way, remember that if you get married after 60 you cannot get a pension for your loved one, and here's the form to fill out so that you can get a smaller pension during this time—which means a lot of veterans are in poverty—so that your loved one can have some money when you pass on.

This is an archaic system. It's shocking that it's still in place. I just wonder if you could explain to me and to the veterans of this country who marry after 60 why their spouse does not deserve the supports that other members receive.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Rachel, it's good to see you, and thank you for all your pushing and making sure that issues are brought to the forefront. You certainly do that.

As you're fully aware, we're always committed to those who serve and to their spouses having the support they need. I know you know that. We have been working, and we still are, with Statistics Canada and the Canadian Institute for Military and Veteran Health Research to gather information about those survivors. We are working on it. We will use the results of this research to inform how best to support these survivors. As you know, and I know, the well-being of veterans and their families is so vitally important.

They've been doing a lot of work and they've been doing a lot of interviewing. Veterans Affairs has interviewed a large number of people, quite a number of people, mostly female—

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Minister, I am so sorry to interrupt you. I try to be as respectful as possible, but I understand that this study, that work, is done. I know there was $150 million promised in budget 2019, the veterans survivor fund. Is this actually going to go out to members?

This is a band-aid solution for the interim. I'm hoping to see the action happen in terms of changing the pension.

Could you just answer that? I'm going to have to cut you off again, because I do have another question that I really need to get to, but please take the 30 seconds or so.

Thank you.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Rachel, I appreciate that you never stop, for sure, and that's good. I can only tell you where we are and what we're doing, and I think you know that.

We are committed to doing all the research on this and making sure we have the appropriate information. That is where we are on this.

Thank you so much. You won't have to interrupt me again.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you so much, Minister.

I want to talk about Roy Puthiampadavil. He is a veteran. Today is actually the 10th anniversary of his fight with VAC about his OSI report.

Mr. Chair, through you, I want to let the minister know that the OSI report was incorrect and that VAC agreed it was incorrect, but were not willing to take the next step and say to the doctor that it is incorrect and needs to be fixed or deleted from his file so that he can move forward.

This person who served our country has suffered traumatically over the last 10 years because he didn't feel recognized by the people who were supposed to protect him after he fought so hard for our country. We also know that for a year he lost his income because VAC was trying to push him into a vocational rehab program that he simply was not ready for. He had to go through a whole year without that income.

The other thing I'm hearing from veterans like Roy is that they feel it's an insurance agency instead of a support service for them. His file clearly illustrates there are systemic issues that need to be addressed when veterans are accessing support.

Through you, Mr. Chair, Minister, will you commit to meeting with me and Roy to discuss this? This is a perfect example of the trauma that some of our veterans are feeling with the service systems in place right now.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Rachel, you know that I will help you in any way I possibly can, but I think for an individual case like this it would be better for the deputy to deal with it.

I'll turn it over to you, Deputy.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Is that an assurance—I have only a few seconds left—that the deputy will, in fact, meet with me and Roy, at the very least? I would prefer that you were there, Minister, to address this issue. For 10 years this veteran has been fighting again and again to have his voice heard. I want to make sure it is on the record that you will be meeting with him and me very soon.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Minister, you have 15 seconds, please.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

The deputy is going to respond.

[Paul Ledwell]

Honourable Member, I'd be very happy to meet with you. If the veteran is willing to share the information from his file, I'd be very happy to sit down and go through that information as well. We understand the privacy of the matter, and we want to make sure the veteran is willing to share that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you so much, Deputy.