Veterans Affairs Committee on Feb. 1st, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Okay.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Chair, I'm happy with one round of six minutes each for each party and then we can get on to other things.

Thanks.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you so much.

All right. Thank you.

Mr. Caputo, you have the floor.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

We are okay with that as well.

We also agree to one six-minute round of questions per member from each party.

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

I apologize, Mr. Chair.

May I have the floor for the questioning of the deputy minister, please?

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Yes.

Okay, perfect. I'm going to start.

Just a second, I have to go back.

I must get back to committee business.

I'd also like to inform the technicians and everyone that we are going back online. Let's be ready.

I would like to make a few comments for the benefit of the new witnesses.

Before speaking, please wait until I recognize your name. When you are ready to speak, you can click on the microphone icon to activate your mike. As a reminder, all comments should be addressed through the chair.

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I would now like to welcome our witnesses: Paul Ledwell, deputy minister; Steven Harris, assistant deputy minister, service delivery branch; and Sara Lantz, acting assistant deputy minister, chief financial officer and corporate services branch.

First, I would like to inform you that I will be using cards to let you know your speaking time is almost up.

I know that you will not be able to use your five minutes' speaking time for your opening remarks, so we will go straight to the first round of six minutes of questions.

So, I invite Frank Caputo to begin.

Go ahead, Mr. Caputo.

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for joining us.

Could I ask approximately how many caseworkers are needed to bring the backlog to the expected level by the end of 2022?

[Paul Ledwell]

Thank you.

Member Caputo, that is a very good question.

I just want to be clear that the backlog is associated with disability adjudications, which are not undertaken by caseworkers, but by adjudicators in that system. We have caseworkers who work with our almost 16,000 veterans who are under case management, and we have workers who do adjudication.

I'll ask my colleague, Assistant Deputy Minister Harris, to speak to the specifics around the backlog and the numbers that are needed to get it down to the desired location.

[Steven Harris, Assistant Deputy Minister, Service Delivery Branch, Department of Veterans Affairs]

With respect to case management, Mr. Caputo—and I address this through the chair, of course—the case management elements are such that no veteran waits for a case manager because there is not a backlog. If a veteran needs a case manager, they are assigned a case manager, so that is a case manager-related issue.

With respect to files and disability adjudication, if there is an application for a disability benefit, as you've noted, there are files in a backlog. The minister indicated during the first hour the progress that we've made with respect to this over the course of the last period of time. We do expect to be down to about 11,500 files in a backlog situation. That is beyond our 16-week service standard. That's down from about 23,000 files, where we started about two years ago, with the additional investments and resources that are there.

We do expect that by around April 2022 the backlog would be in a state of about 11,500.

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

How many adjudicators are needed by the end of the year to bring us within that 16-week standard?

[Steven Harris]

There would be no number of adjudicators within this end of year we could bring on and train in place to have it down to that perspective. It takes some time to recruit, hire and then ultimately train to have people in place to do the adjudication itself. We continue to work among the resources we currently have to be able to reduce the files that are beyond our service standard.

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Is it possible, then, to even give an estimate as to how long this backlog will last, given that we don't know how long it will take to hire adjudicators?

[Steven Harris]

The challenge with respect to this particular issue is that we don't control intake, so the number of veterans who come forward seeking benefits varies, and it has varied significantly over the course of the pandemic period, in particular. We've seen increases, as is noted in much of the material that has been shared with you. We've seen significant increases in the amount of intake we've seen since 2015, in particular. While the intake has varied over the last little while, our production has been able to go up with the additional resources we do have.

Forecasting it out, the resources we have indicate that we will be in a position of trying to meet the incoming intake, but it will depend on the intake with respect to how we would forecast it out.

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

With respect to forecasting, the forecast now—if nothing changes, even with the additional hires—is that the backlog will increase by the end of the year. Is that correct?

[Steven Harris]

It wouldn't increase by the end of the year. Sorry, did you mean the end of the calendar year?

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Yes.

[Steven Harris]

Yes, sir. If it's the end of the fiscal year, we do expect it still to go down before the end of the fiscal year.

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

So, it is absolutely necessary to hire more adjudicators in order to deal with the backlog. Is that correct?

[Steven Harris]

I think additional resources, sir, are always helpful. Of course, we're doing other things to try to speed up the process for veterans who apply. In behind the scenes we are streamlining the processes that are required to support that, making it easier for our disability adjudicators and all of the team that works on this to make decisions much more quickly. Those are additional steps we take in addition to what resources we may have available.

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

I understand that $638 million lapsed on the public accounts in the last fiscal year. Is that accurate?

[Steven Harris]

Yes, sir. I believe that is the accurate figure.

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

That money could have been used to hire more adjudicators and more caseworkers. Is that right?

[Steven Harris]

Well, sir, if you would like, I'd ask Sara Lantz, my colleague who is the chief financial officer, to respond to that question.

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Thank you.

[Sara Lantz, Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Chief Financial Officer and Corporate Services Branch, Department of Veterans Affairs]

Thank you for the question.

Mr. Chair, actually, of the lapse of approximately $635 million, 95% of that funding was directly voted for clients' financial benefits and services, so the department has no authority whatsoever to spend those funds on operating the department. Because they're quasi-statutory in nature, it's really just a timing difference. Those funds were not used in the last fiscal year, but they were available for use in future years.