Veterans Affairs Committee on Feb. 15th, 2022

[Stéphan Déry]

Since 2017, in the past five years, we have noticed 17 incidents of desecration or accidents at the site that were reported to the police. Of those 17 incidents since 2017, five happened between January 28 and today.

In total, in the last five years, there have been 17 incidents, from minor incidents to more damage to the Tomb of the Unknown Solider.

Thank you.

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Sir, you mentioned that 17 incidents had occurred. Do you know if there were arrests or charges as a result of any of those 17 incidents?

[Stéphan Déry]

Thank you for the really good question.

As I mentioned earlier, we're the custodian of the site. Our role is to preserve and maintain the site to ensure that it is there when Canadians want to be there. There are approximately one million Canadians who come to the National War Memorial site each year, so we want to make sure the site is in perfect condition when they're there. With the NCC, our partner that does the maintenance at the site, we ensure that it is in perfect condition.

As soon as an incident is seen or noticed, it's reported to the police. From there, I couldn't tell how many arrests there have been. It would be a question for the Ottawa police.

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Déry; and thank you, Mr. Caputo.

Now let's go to Mr. Sean Casey. The floor is yours for six minutes.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair; and thank you to all the witnesses for being here.

I'm going to start with Ms. Garrett-Baird. From your seat in the commemorations division at the national headquarters, you are surrounded by people who dedicate their professional lives to serving veterans.

Would you be able to comment on their reaction at the national headquarters of Veterans Affairs, among your colleagues and co-workers, to what happened in the two incidents at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier?

[Crystal Garrett-Baird]

Over the past number of weeks, we've been working closely with our colleagues, public servants at Procurement Canada and the National Capital Commission, who have kept us up to date on the situation in Ottawa and how that has been evolving.

As a stakeholder, we have been working with them, and we are grateful for that partnership. We have then been able, in turn, to link up with our stakeholders to ensure that they're aware of what's happening.

As a department, our mandate is to ensure that we continue to commemorate and remember those who have served and have fallen, and to honour their sacrifices and achievements. That is and continues to be a priority of the department as a key element of our mandate.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Thank you, Ms. Baird.

To the best of my knowledge, we don't have before the committee today any veterans or veterans organizations. The one with the daily contact with veterans and their organizations would be you and your co-workers in Charlottetown.

Have the phones been ringing off the wall? Can you give us some sense of the reaction from your clients to this...?

[Crystal Garrett-Baird]

Sure.

It's important to know that there are approximately 600,000 veterans throughout Canada, and around 190,000 of them are clients of Veterans Affairs Canada. Our goal and our role is to ensure that we are providing the benefits and services to meet their needs.

We know that the events over the past number of weeks have been challenging for Canadians, for veterans and for those who are serving. The health and safety and well-being of those veterans is our top priority, so any veteran who is having challenges that may have been compounded by ongoing events is encouraged to contact the VAC assistance line at 1-800-268-7708.

As for our stakeholders, we have been engaged with them. Of course, they have been very concerned about how things are going, but they are grateful for the engagement with our partners at PSPC and the National Capital Commission and for the ongoing dialogue that we have with them. However, like us, these organizations want to ensure that our memorials and monuments continue to be public spaces to recognize, remember and commemorate those who have served.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

My last question is for you, Ms. Garrett-Baird, and then I'm going to move on.

There was a “slow roll” convoy on Saturday that started in all points of Prince Edward Island and rolled past the cenotaph at Province House. I expect you are aware of it. One of the significant news stories that came from that convoy was the act of a single veteran, Owen Parkhouse. I expect you're familiar with that, Ms. Garrett-Baird.

Would you please share with the committee what happened in front of the cenotaph in Charlottetown on Saturday morning?

[Crystal Garrett-Baird]

Yes. Thank you for the question.

As the member referred to, in Charlottetown on Saturday, there was a convoy, as there were in other parts of the country. It started on John Yeo Drive in Charlottetown, Prince Edward Island, and then continued to move down University Avenue, which turns into Great George Street. At the end of Great George Street is our cenotaph, which is in front of Province House, or our provincial legislature.

What occurred at that convoy was that as vehicles continued to the end of Great George Street and turned, a veteran, Mr. Owen Parkhouse, was at the cenotaph, ensuring that veterans and the importance of those who have served were recognized.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Thank you.

Mr. Harris, it's a pleasure to see you again. You always provide such interesting insights before this committee.

I'm going to ask you a broad question, because I hope that you will have some more insights today as the chief historian.

It's often said that if we forget our history, we're bound to repeat our mistakes, or something along those lines. Sir, from where you sit, what can we learn from our history to ensure that what we've seen here in recent weeks won't be repeated?

Can you provide some sort of historical—

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Please leave 15 seconds for Mr. Harris to give a quick answer, please.

[Dr. Stephen Harris]

I'm not sure I can say there are lessons learned.

Canadians do remember and do honour. They don't need to be told to do that. The best example was the bridges over Highway 401 after four soldiers were killed in Afghanistan.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Harris.

Your time is up.

We'll move on to Luc Desilets, the committee's second vice‑chair.

Mr. Desilets, you have six minutes.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Déry, I'd like you to enlighten me as to how the site was desecrated, exactly. I've read newspaper articles about it, but I haven't seen what happened at the site itself.

Can you describe what happened?

Cars were illegally parked, which isn't insignificant, but I would like to hear what you have to say about that.

[Stéphan Déry]

Thank you for your question.

People used the monuments as public toilets. Others danced on the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier.

I have just been told that the Ottawa police are asking for the public's help in identifying the person who was filmed dancing on the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier.

It is this disrespect that we have witnessed over the past few weeks, since January 28.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you for that clarification.

Earlier, you referred to 17 incidents of desecration that occurred at monuments.

Is it the three monuments in Ottawa or other monuments outside of Ottawa?

[Stéphan Déry]

Thank you for your question.

Public Services and Procurement Canada is the custodian of the National Aboriginal Veterans Monument, the National War Memorial and the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier. The 17 incidents refer to this group of monuments in Ottawa, which are under video surveillance 24 hours a day by our colleagues in parliamentary operations.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

That's a rather unique occupation. Do you think this situation could have been avoided?

[Stéphan Déry]

Thank you for your question.

This is a very good question, which is extremely difficult to answer.

[Technical difficulties] we have never experienced this type of protest. There were other protests around the monument in the past, but on this scale, I think it's the first [technical difficulties].

We worked very closely with our colleagues at Veterans Affairs, the RCMP and the Ottawa Police Service to ensure the best possible crowd control. We also had to make sure that these monuments were protected.

I'll give you an example of just how out of the ordinary this is. My team, of which I am very proud, spent a lot of time over the last three weeks putting up concrete barricades in support of the Ottawa Police, the City of Ottawa and the province. Our entire organization was mobilized on weekdays and weekends to put up concrete fences and barriers everywhere to provide security as requested by the City of Ottawa, the Ottawa Police and the Ontario Provincial Police.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

When you're talking about barricades, you're talking about the barricades in Ottawa, not around the three sites we're talking about.

[Stéphan Déry]

I'm also talking about the three sites [technical difficulties] February 4 [technical difficulties]. We installed a fence around the First World War Memorial Site and the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier. These are eight foot high barriers bolted together. At the request of the National Capital Commission, which is responsible for the other two monuments, we installed bolted fences around them as well.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

It is therefore unlikely that such events will occur in the next few days, if the occupation of Ottawa [technical difficulties].

[Stéphan Déry]

On February 12, the barriers that were installed and bolted together around the National War Memorial were [technical difficulties]. We were asked to reinstall them by attaching them to the plaza, but [technical difficulties] not to reinstall them, because police officers were worried that they could be used as projectiles and raise tensions between protesters and police. Veterans were [technical difficulties].