Veterans Affairs Committee on March 20th, 2023

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Let me ask it another way, Minister.

What did you do? Did anyone at the department speak to any of these veterans to determine what happened, any of the veterans that you indicated came to you? Name a—

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Of course, Mr. Richards, they attempted to contact veterans and they did contact veterans. They always contact veterans—

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

And they determined that they couldn't believe the veteran?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Are you going to determine how I answer? This committee has changed a lot. Normally you ask the questions and I give the answer. You don't dictate to me how I answer.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Mr. Minister, you spoke to them. Did you—

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

What I'm telling you is yes. The department did contact veterans, and if you do not wish for me to answer, that's okay—

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

I'm sorry, Minister. I'm sorry, everyone. The six minutes is over now.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

You're not answering. That's a problem, Minister. You're telling me that you don't believe them—

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Excuse me. You have no mike. The time is over.

Now I invite Mr. Miao for six minutes or less, please.

[Wilson Miao, Liberal, Richmond Centre, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister and officials, for joining us today to discuss the supplementary estimates (C) and the main estimates. It's always great to talk to you about the important work you are doing for veterans at Veterans Affairs.

I also want to acknowledge your visit to Vancouver recently to tour the new Legion Veterans Village in Surrey and the centre of excellence for veterans and first responders, which is focusing on PTSD and mental health as well as mixed medical and rehabilitation services.

In your opening remarks, you spoke about the threat that was facing the Juno Beach Centre last year, and many members, including me, heard from our constituents in large numbers about the concerns surrounding this proposed condominium development on the land next to the centre. Can you please tell this committee more about the funding that will help protect the land, and also discuss your recent trip to the centre? I suspect that this trip was much different from the one you took last year.

Thank you.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Of course, on the Legion Veterans Village, it was certainly an eye-opener to go there, and for Captain Greene, of course, anybody involved in Veterans Affairs understands what that man went through. To have explained what took place at the Legion Veterans Village and what they were able to do to rehabilitate this human being who was brutally attacked with an axe in Afghanistan is certainly heartwarming, because that's our job: to make sure that we provide for veterans everything we possibly can to make sure they lead a good life. I understand that Captain Greene is up and walking, is able to talk and is improving all the time. What a privilege it was to visit that village. They do so much.

On Juno Beach, of course, as you know, a number of people at this table were there last year when we found out that a condominium development was going to take place there. It was a very difficult situation. It's important to understand that a lot of Canadian blood was spilled on that land, which was going to be sold to a developer. A number of us went there and met the group, and then I met with my counterpart in Paris and we had a great discussion. Of course, you'll see in the supplementary estimates the $4 million. We worked with the French government, and I want to thank the French government for being involved and so helpful in order to make sure that land was protected. That was done.

I went to Juno a few weeks ago, and it was certainly a great privilege. One of my stops was to thank the people for preserving this property. Also, I was able to announce an investment of $11.7 million to help maintain, modernize and enhance the visitor experience at Canada's 15 overseas memorials, including Canada's National Vimy Memorial and the Beaumont-Hamel Newfoundland Memorial.

It's so important that we invest in these areas. Anybody who has been at Juno or Vimy Ridge certainly understands how important that is for Canadians.

I thank you for the question. It is vitally important to the French government and to the Canadian government and also very important to the veterans and Canadians in general, because Canadians have a great respect. We heard a lot about the development. Nobody was doing anything illegal, but there were moves made that were just totally unacceptable.

Thank you.

[Wilson Miao, Liberal, Richmond Centre, BC]

Thank you, Minister, for sharing that.

Also, I noticed there is funding earmarked for the 2025 Invictus Games in Whistler and Vancouver. The Invictus Games are an incredible experience and opportunity not just for veterans but for CAF members. Could you please speak more about this investment in the games and what this means to veterans, their families and Canadians?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you very much, Wilson, for the question.

I have to thank so many people who worked so hard to make sure that the Invictus Games will take place in Vancouver and Whistler. It's an honour for Canadians, and it's certainly no trouble to see that it's an honour for people in Vancouver and Whistler. I did have the privilege to go there.

It's such an honour to see these veterans showcase what they can do, like when they're out demonstrating sledge hockey. They have great pride, the veterans, when they're out demonstrating that. They have great pride, and this is all about rehabilitation. It's not about winning or losing. It's to make sure they participate with other countries, with allied countries around the world.

It also was wonderful to be a t the Invictus Games two years out event, which was a reception to honour the veterans and to say thank you to people. Many in the private sector invest in veterans programs, which is so important, and then there are the veterans themselves and the people working so hard on this to make it happen. It was certainly enjoyable to see that—to see the pride in people and to see rehabilitation taking place with veterans. It is so important.

I would think that in two years Whistler and Vancouver will certainly be hopping. This is something in which many other countries, including Great Britain, France and Australia, will be participating.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you very much.

I now invite the second vice-chair of the committee, Luc Desilets, to take the floor for six minutes.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you all for being here.

Thank you for joining us, Minister.

I would like to continue in the same vein as my colleague Mr. Miao. A big thank you for investing $4 million in the Juno Beach Centre. We were there together. I put a lot of effort into this file because I believed in it. This investment of $4 million has made it possible to move forward on this project. It was also a good opportunity for all parties to work together. The veterans benefit from this, and we are all here for them.

I do have some questions for you, however. I cannot just say nice things.

There was a $1-billion surplus in 2023, to be precise, $921,556,000. We all had trouble understanding that. How is it possible that such an astronomical amount was not spent?

For my part, if I had a billion dollars—I will repeat some things I have asked for in the past—I would hire more francophone review board members. This goes without saying in order to once again reduce the gap between francophones and anglophones or even eliminate it once and for all. It is a question of equity. I would recruit employees for permanent positions. A permanent position is clearly much more appealing than a temporary position or a contract. Saying that a given position will no longer be needed in a year or two is not realistic. In fact, the last 10 to 15 years have shown us that the workload is increasing, not decreasing. I was pleased to hear you talk about a number of veterans waiting. According to my information, there are 8,000 veterans waiting.

I would also hire more case managers to lighten their duties—which are not easy—and their heavy workload. In the past year, we learned that an incredibly high number of veterans were receiving services from a case manager.

I would like to ask you what happened to that billion dollars. Do you intend to reinvest it in the 2023‑2024 budget for Veterans Affairs?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Number one, on Juno Beach, I think it was so important that it was a non-partisan group that attended that. You may very well remember the interview on that. That's so important. It really involved the French people when that interview took place and when the group at Juno Beach put on.... You saw it—it was quite a show. It was a true human feeling about veterans, which is so important.

That brought us to the point of the French government. As you know, I went on the next day and met my counterpart in Paris, as I said. Really, I have to feel that the interview had a lot to do with it. I know my deputy spoke to them in Paris. I spoke to them too, but that interview was so important. Being there was so important.

You mentioned the lapsed funding. There's been lapsed funding in Veterans Affairs for many years. What we have to do is make sure the funding is there to provide any veteran.... When their funding is approved, the money has to be there. There has to be more than is needed or we will have less than is needed, and that's not acceptable. That's been this year, last year and every year I've been in Veterans Affairs.

You mentioned positions. Of course, my job is to make sure we have the appropriate people in the appropriate places and meet the requirements for veterans as best we possibly can. You mentioned.... I think you said 6,800 veterans. That's the backlog at the moment, down from 23,000. It's so important that we continue on the track to meet the national standard. I know you care about veterans and want to make sure they receive the proper remuneration and what they deserve. We're working very hard to do that.

Thank you.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Let me ask the same question again. Will that surplus be included in the 2023‑2024 budget for Veterans Affairs?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Yes, any dollars that go back to the treasury are just there for the next year to make sure that we have the funding in place so that veterans receive the appropriate remuneration. It is always there. It is not lost at all.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

If this is nothing out of the ordinary, as you said, that means we should also expect a budget surplus at the end of the next fiscal year.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Yes, you would expect it every year, I think, here at this committee. Every year at about this time, you would get.... I've been at Veterans Affairs before, and this question always comes up, but we always have to make sure that the appropriate amount of funding is there so that we can provide funding for veterans. That's why it's there.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

I don't think it was as high last year, but that's fine.

Thank you, Minister.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Can I answer?

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Yes, go ahead. You have 15 seconds.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Yes, it could be less, but it's always a figure more.... It might have been a bit more this year and a bit less last year, but there always has to be a surplus there to make sure we meet the requirements.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you.

Now I'd like to invite Ms. Lisa Marie Barron to please go ahead for six minutes or less.