Veterans Affairs Committee on March 20th, 2023

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Harris, you're off to a good start and your voice is warmed up.

The minister recently announced that he would invest $43 million to extend the contract for managers and service officers by three years. We all know that these case managers are very qualified and much appreciated. Recently, the committee even heard from a veteran from the Maritimes who said that it was hard to find a good case manager.

However, over the last few months, witnesses have told us that some of these managers still had to manage 40 cases each.

Can you confirm whether this is still the case?

[Steven Harris]

It is possible that some case managers still have to look after 40 files. The average workload is 30 files.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

All right, let's go with 30 veterans per manager. That's still far from the ratio announced by former deputy minister Natynczyk.

How many managers do you expect to hire?

[Steven Harris]

We have enough money for about 480 or 482 case managers. The hiring process is still ongoing. Some managers will be retiring or leaving us for other positions. We would like to have a full team of case managers at all times.

We are always looking for and hiring and training new case managers. We are trying to reach our goal of 480 case managers by every means possible.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Is it realistic to think you can hire that many people right now—

[Steven Harris]

It's realistic.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

—despite the current state of the labour market?

[Steven Harris]

Yes.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

All right. When will the ratio of 25 cases per manager be reached?

[Steven Harris]

That always depends on veterans' needs.

The number of veterans who turn to us and need a case manager is in flux. Some go from case management to guided support. It's a less intensive service for people who are more autonomous and want to improve their health and well-being. Some veterans will always need case management. At this time, about 14,000 veterans need that service.

We are always on the lookout to determine who needs a case manager and who needs less intensive help, such as guided support, which is dealt with on an individual basis.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Harris.

I have another question for you.

A month ago, at our request, you provided us with the rehabilitation contract between Veterans Affairs Canada and the Partners in Canadian Veterans Rehabilitation Services consortium. When I read it, I was very surprised to see that the public servants' salaries had been redacted.

Was there a reason for that?

[Steven Harris]

They have a contract with each provider. In some cases, the fees are higher than they were in the past; in other cases, they are lower. These are partnerships between providers and the entity we do business with.

Moreover, the people who are already helping a veteran and who will be transitioning that veteran to the new service will be kept at the same rate.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Why redact their salaries? I don't see why the amount has to be kept confidential.

[Steven Harris]

It's not hidden at all. It's a contract between the supplier and the contractor.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

I would have really liked to know these amounts, as we just found out from veterans' requests that the rate for a psychologist in Quebec is $150 per hour, I believe. But elsewhere, it is $225 an hour.

We are making connections between Quebec veterans' needs that are not really being met by psychologists and these rates, as the psychologists do not find it worthwhile to deal with complex cases.

When I saw that it was redacted, I asked myself why.

[Steven Harris]

These contracts are negotiated by the supplier and the contractor. They are in line with the fees established by the association. It is a contract between them.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Okay.

I have no further questions. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Desilets.

Now I'd like to invite Ms. Barron for six minutes or less.

Please go ahead.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to you all for being here. I don't think I mentioned that in the last round.

My question follows my colleague's questions around Veterans Affairs Canada's investigation into medical assistance in dying being offered to veterans. This question is for Mr. Ledwell.

Can you clarify why the veterans you have on file were not reached out to and asked if they had been approached about MAID by a Veterans Affairs worker? Right now, the onus of responsibility is being placed on veterans to come forward, but how can we actually have a...? How could a thorough investigation be properly conducted if veterans on file are not being reached out to?

[Paul Ledwell]

The investigation was actually done in two ways. Yes, we invited veterans to come forward. We also verified, through our files, any indication of where an issue may have been raised inappropriately between a VAC employee and veterans. This was, again, by looking through and analyzing the case files, greater than 400,000 files, to determine whether there was any indication or evidence that such a conversation took place. The onus wasn't entirely on the veterans to come forward. We were identifying those cases.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Why weren't they reached out to, though? I understand what was done, but do you know the rationale as to why the veterans who were on file were not reached out to proactively to hear from them?

[Paul Ledwell]

Just to clarify, do you mean the greater than 400,000 veterans?

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

That's right, yes.

[Paul Ledwell]

There was a general invitation for any veteran to come forward. That was made publicly. It was certainly underlined here at committee. It was stated by the minister. It's been stated by me and the department. There was an open invitation, yes, for any veteran to come forward. Again, as indicated before, if they're not comfortable coming forward to the department, they can come forward to the ombudsman.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

I want to be able to move on to the next question, but how was this open invitation provided?