Veterans Affairs Committee on March 20th, 2023

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Thank you very much.

The partnership is required to maintain—and this is in their directives as well—an up-to-date list of registered rehabilitation service providers to whom veterans may be referred. One of the main tasks for this group partnership will be to replace the current list and “develop and define their [own] comprehensive network of rehabilitation service providers depending on the business model for service delivery.” I'm trying to figure out that business model.

Prior to this, case managers ran the medical and psychosocial rehabilitation program, and the contractor managed the vocational.

I am aware, from an ATIP, that the full list of service providers for veterans to date is 250,000 across the nation, and it's being brought down to 9,000. Veterans are actually requesting therapies as part of their rehabilitation plans in this new partnership. They're being told by PCVRS that they can access these through their Blue Cross A-line coverage. They're actually being pushed away from this partnership to their Blue Cross coverage.

In the past, the case managers always coordinated these therapies for the vets, and it was collaborative. What we have heard from multiple practitioners—and we have heard today from a lot of those who have provided these services—is about the loss of that rapport and the working alliance between the clinicians, the veterans and the caseworkers. The new rehabilitation program appears to negate that relationship, yet they're not providing the service.

My question to you is this: Why did Veterans Affairs Canada choose to contract out the delivery of the entire rehabilitation program, and why are they already failing to meet the veterans' needs for mental and physical rehabilitation treatments? They are pushing vets to go by themselves to deal with Blue Cross for these things.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you very much.

We have met and we will meet the requirements. That is why we've continued to keep the professionals who were there when you were in government, when your party was in power, but we've added to those to make them more available to veterans. That's what I'm trying to say. The fact is that they're available to 14,000 veterans, with many locations right across the country.

What we want to do with this contract is to make sure we provide the services, whatever the profession, where they need them. That's what we're doing. That was done partially before, but now we've improved the program.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you very much.

I'd like to remind all members and witnesses to address their questions and answers through the chair, please.

Now, for five minutes I invite Mrs. Rechie Valdez.

Please, go ahead.

[Rechie Valdez, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the minister and the department officials for joining us in committee.

Minister, I want to thank you for providing us updates on the Juno Beach announcements as well as on the investments towards the funding for the 2025 Invictus Games in Vancouver and Whistler. That's such a huge win.

Minister, I don't know if you had an opportunity in the first round to provide as elaborate an answer as you were hoping to. I want to give you the opportunity, if you want to mention or answer anything from the first round of questioning, before I go into my own questions.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

No, I'm good. That's okay.

[Rechie Valdez, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

That's perfect.

Minister, this committee—

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

I hope you'll ask them to me again.

[Rechie Valdez, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Thank you.

This committee recently received the final version, as you know, of the report on MAID being inappropriately raised with veterans. I really want to thank you all for the work you're doing and for all the work that went into that report. I'm happy to see that this incident does appear to be isolated to one employee.

Over the last six months, we've spoken about the impact this has had on the veterans community but also on Veterans Affairs. I'm sure these actions have impacted their ability to do their jobs and their reputations as VAC employees.

Could you speak about the impact this issue has had on frontline workers and the important work they do in serving veterans and families?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, for an important question.

This was, of course, an unfortunate situation. It was totally unacceptable. As you know, when I was informed about the MAID issue, I did this: I immediately asked my deputy to conduct an investigation, and then we saw fit to bring in the RCMP.

The fact is, we wanted to do this for the investigation, and perhaps this will help answer the first question. We made sure that anybody who had a problem in this area contacted the deputy, the department, the ombud or the RCMP eventually. We wanted to make sure we got to the bottom of this and investigated it as thoroughly as we could. It was one individual who conducted the conversation with veterans four times, which was totally unacceptable. It caused an awful lot of difficulties, I think, for our great staff at Veterans Affairs Canada.

I've been around for a while, in a few departments. I don't know a more dedicated staff than that of the Department of Veterans Affairs. They truly care about veterans. Of course, this hurt them. They have great pride in what they do. If you had my job, you would see this. If you go to the Department of Veterans Affairs.... It's good to do that, as a committee, in order to see exactly what kind of effort they truly put into it. Not only that, but they also volunteer their time. They're very dedicated to the veterans. What happened hurt dedicated employees.

I want to say that we probably have the best public servants in the government, and I want to publicly thank them so much for what they've done and continue to do: making sure veterans receive the proper remuneration. It's our job to put that together, and it's their job to deliver it. They're doing that in fine form.

Thank you.

[Rechie Valdez, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to clarify something you said earlier. To correct the record, if any veteran were to come to you—yourself or your departmental officials—you are there to be there for veterans. You're open to that. You're always going to be willing to support them. Is that correct?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Absolutely.

The report is in, but if anybody has a problem in this area, we want to know it. We're wide open to hearing it. What we want to do, as we always do, is provide the appropriate services to veterans. It's so important that people realize that. It's important for the public servants in Veterans Affairs Canada to understand we're behind them. I certainly am, 100%. They are dedicated public servants who do a great job and will continue to do so. Of course, they appreciate what we do here too.

This was a very unfortunate issue that hurt a lot of people. It's unfortunate and totally unacceptable.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you so much.

We will now have two speakers for two and a half minutes each.

Mr. Desilets, you have the floor first.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, we have seen a huge decrease in disability benefits. They have dropped like never before. These are the best results, I believe, in the last seven years as regards the gap between francophones and anglophones. The gap is currently eight weeks, which of course is eight weeks too long. Francophones should not be penalized in that way.

Allow me to relay something that Raymond Théberge, the Commissioner of Official Languages, said. He stated that he was especially concerned by the nature of these complaints, since they involve services provided to people who have served our country and who need support. He maintained that the wait times should be the same for francophones and anglophones, for all services offered by federal institutions.

Minister, what specifically still needs to be done to reach equity in the short term in the treatment of francophones' and anglophones' files?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

You're absolutely right. What we have to do is make sure.... There was a big problem between female and male, and now that's been met. With the French veterans, it was 15 weeks—unacceptable, totally unacceptable—but it's now at 2.4 weeks longer. That's unacceptable, but we're on the right track—the same track we're on with the backlogs—to make sure we meet the requirements.

Of course, every veteran, whatever language they speak, deserves the appropriate remuneration, because they're the ones who give us the right to sit here and say and do what we wish.

Thank you.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

I can hear you very well, but you are talking like an expert politician.

What specifically can be done to ensure that francophones and anglophones are treated equally?

What measures are being considered right now? Are there any?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Yes, and I believe that the track we're on.... You've been at committee with me a number of times, and you saw what happened as we've progressed with the backlog. As I said, it was at 15 weeks, and now it's at 2.4 weeks.

Luc, that's not acceptable. It's not good enough. We have to meet the requirement and we will, I think, by this summer. The gap will be closed this year. There will be no gap.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you—

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Do you think that by next summer the discrepancy will be a thing of the past?

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Desilets.

Also, I will remind you, Minister. I know that you know Luc, but please address your answers through me.

Now for two and a half minutes, I'd like to invite Ms. Barron to please go ahead.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

Minister, as you know, my colleague Rachel Blaney has been working hard on the marriage after 60 clause, which predominantly impacts single senior women with low incomes. I'm wondering why the minister is holding on to the $150 million in the veterans survivors fund and why these funds have not been released to the identified spouses.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for the question.

You know we're committed to making sure that veterans and their spouses have the support they need. We've been working with Statistics Canada and the Canadian Institute for Military and Veteran Health Research to gather the information about these survivors, and we have that. We will use the results of this information to inform how best to support these survivors. I can assure you.... I have to make sure that we support veterans and their families.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you, Minister.

This clause is clear. We know that this clause is sexist. It discriminates against women. It's archaic and it needs to be changed. Why are we keeping this gold digger clause in the books? We just need to get rid of it. What's happening with the delay on this?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you very much.

I indicated quite clearly what I am doing in my responsibility as minister. That's what I have done and that's what we will continue to do, and we will be dealing with this shortly. You're talking about the $150 million.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you.

I'm just processing another response there.

Would you agree that this gold digger clause is sexist and archaic in discriminating against single women, Minister?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

What I can do as Minister of Veterans Affairs is make sure that we make sure veterans have the appropriate funding they deserve. That is what I have to do. That's what my mandate is as Minister of Veterans Affairs.