Veterans Affairs Committee on June 1st, 2023

[LGen Lise Bourgon]

Personally, when I talk to women, one of the biggest gaps remaining is the access to child care, because as we move from province to province, we end up on a waiting list. We don't have the luxury of waiting for two years to get a spot, because two years later we're posted again. The uncertainty of getting access to child care when serving members move has a huge impact on them.

It's not about the cost of child care. Of course, less is great, but it's not the cost. It's the availability of child care and also the availability of child care that supports our needs. We don't work seven to four. We work 24-7, on weekends and on call, so having secure access to child care is very important.

Again, I go back to my story as a maritime helicopter pilot flying a Sea King in Shearwater. My husband was deployed. I had to land a Sea King in the parking lot in an emergency. It was quarter to six, and the day care was closing at six. Who could pick up the children? Those are the stressors that, honestly, we don't need. There are enough stressors in the military. Having access to child care should not be one of them.

My wish would be for better child care access for all of CAF members, women and men.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Thank you.

Ms. Valdez.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Blake Richards]

You have about three minutes remaining.

[Rechie Valdez, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Lieutenant-General Bourgon, you mention that you don't want to hurt women. What I'm curious about is how you are assisting women, or trying to assist them, without retraumatizing them. With lots of witnesses, even just in sharing their testimony, you can see what they have to go through to just open up. Can you share some insight there?

[MGen Marc Bilodeau]

I can start by saying that we're providing training to our health care providers from a trauma-informed care approach and in how to do that in a safe manner, a welcoming manner and a respectful manner. I think that training is a good step for us to make our care more accessible to our women.

I might ask Lieutenant-Colonel Tuka to add to that from a mental health perspective.

Andrea.

[LCol Andrea Tuka]

Thank you very much, sir.

There are a couple of other things I would like to add. Our psychologists, for example, in the Canadian Armed Forces mental health services have at least one evidence-based, trauma-focused treatment modality that they can use to treat people. Also, we provided a webinar for the entire health services about a year ago, focusing on military sexual trauma, what it means and where the resources are. We also included trauma-informed care with that.

Also, we do have opportunities to attend different continuing educational events, and we bring those events to the clinics as well, so that everyone can get those new training opportunities. We would like to get our clinicians up to date with the newest and most up-to-date, evidence-based treatments.

[Rechie Valdez, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Thank you.

Quickly, how can we address some of the stigma for women who are seeking mental health services?

[MGen Marc Bilodeau]

Stigmatization is an issue not only for women but for men as well.

I think we've made a lot of progress over the last few decades in reducing that stigma by having senior leaders sharing with the rest of the CAF members what they have been through, the fact that they reached out for care and the fact that they were able to recover as a result of that.

Again, we're trying to focus on early intervention and early consultation. We know that the prognosis is better for that, and we're more likely to keep members in uniform instead of having to release them if they do so.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Blake Richards]

Thank you.

Mr. Desilets, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Tolmie, I really liked your question. For once, it was really relevant. I'm only joking. I'm in a teasing mood tonight.

Mr. Bilodeau, I was surprised when you said that there was excellent cooperation between the Canadian Armed Forces and Veterans Affairs Canada, because I swear to you, that is absolutely not what the committee has heard so far. I've been on this committee for three and a half years. It's not because of you or any of you, but the two departments are not sufficiently connected.

A soldier on the ground, who is also an individual, a person, a human being, sees their status changed overnight as soon as they leave the Canadian Armed Forces. I'm getting goose pimples as I say this, because I know you're all going to go through this. It bothers me that these transitions don't go well. The crux of the problem is the connection between the two departments. You're doing what you can on your end, and Veterans Affairs Canada is doing what it can on its end, but there's no link between the two. There's a separation, a fissure, a divorce, and that troubles me. For years now, the committee has been hearing veterans tell us about all the hardships they're facing.

I'm speaking to you because you talked about excellent cooperation. However, I don't see it and I don't get it. In your area alone, if you had full authority, you would have to facilitate the transfer of files and follow up on them. In fact, you didn't answer the question I asked you earlier. In an ideal world, a Canadian Armed Forces doctor would see new veterans for a few months. Since they would be familiar with the person's pedigree, that is to say their file, they could facilitate their transition and help them with their multiple applications.

Do I have any time left, Mr. Chair?

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Blake Richards]

Please keep your questions short and request brief answers.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

I rarely ask so many questions, but this is something near and dear to my heart.

Mr. Bilodeau, what's your take on all this? What needs to be done from a medical perspective?

[MGen Marc Bilodeau]

We have to distinguish between the cooperation that exists between the department and Veterans Affairs Canada and the transition experience. They are two different things.

We can't deny that the transition experience is a major stress factor for many of our members. When you're a member of the military, that's your identity. When you lose that identity, it's a huge shock to the system.

In terms of the transition, we're kind of doing it the other way around, actually. Often, we'll allow a family doctor, for example, to start seeing a member before their release date, to facilitate their transition to civilian life.

As the surgeon general for the Armed Forces, I'm not allowed to provide care to someone after their release date. However, because we have a contract that allows us to purchase that care, a family doctor can often be brought in to look after someone before their release date, which makes the transition easier.

[Cmdre Daniel Bouchard]

We also work in a personalized way with people and health care services. When someone is facing difficulties, we let them stay on longer. We let them stay in the Canadian Armed Forces a while longer. We work hand in hand with the authorities.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Blake Richards]

Thank you.

We now have Rachel Blaney for two and a half minutes,.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Are you sure it's two and a half minutes? I think he got a bit more than that.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Blake Richards]

He did get away with it there, or the chair was very generous.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

He got away with it. The chair was very lenient.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Blake Richards]

I won't cut into your time with it, though. I promise.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Okay, thank you.

I just want to say that I do believe things are getting better. I represent 19 Wing, and right across the street there's the transition centre. I've done tours of both places. I do see that there is a lot of work being done, and it's important that we acknowledge that. However, I think it's also important that we acknowledge that we still have a way to go. We're working hard, but we still have a way to go.

If I can come back to you, Major-General, you answered my last question, but I want to ask for a bit of clarity. Who was in charge of that training? You talked about a medical booklet. Who was in charge?

Also, you said that there's a survey, but those booklets would be going to health care professionals, so how are you surveying veterans, including women, for feedback? I'm just wondering, because I'm not clear on the process. What I really want to understand is whether veterans are included in this. If they are not, I think it's important that we recognize that so that it's something we can talk about in the future.

[MGen Marc Bilodeau]

I'm not aware of any training, specifically; I'm aware of a document that was shared with family doctors. It was developed by Veterans Affairs with the College of Family Physicians, with our support. This is supported by the transition group as well. The survey is not specific to that.

Veterans Affairs is doing regular surveys of their veterans. One of the examples was released several years ago, the Life After Service survey, which highlighted many of the challenges that our veterans have from a health perspective after transition, for example. It has allowed us to focus a bit of our efforts there.

I suspect that through those surveys, veterans will be able to monitor whether access to family doctors who understand their needs is better or not. However, I am not aware of the specifics of how they are going to assess that access.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Okay, that's helpful. Now we know that it's just not happening, and it might be something we want to explore in the future.

If I can come to you, Commodore, you didn't mention anything about transition services for MST, military sexual trauma. Are there transition services for MST?

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Blake Richards]

That will be the final question for this round, but I'll give you time to respond, of course.

[Cmdre Daniel Bouchard]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Specific transition services for MST are a more personalized transition service with the individual. Therefore, if there are specific requirements and specific needs, the service can be tailored. If they are released in an injured manner, as in a medical release, they also have a service coordinator who facilitates that transition piece with them and makes them aware of all the services that are available.

[LGen Lise Bourgon]

I just want to add that the SMSRC is the expert on that MST support. I know that with their support team, they are a bit similar to OSISS, with restorative engagement. Their team works with victims of MST to try to help them get better.