Veterans Affairs Committee on March 4th, 2022

[Amy Meunier]

Thank you for that clarification. I appreciate that.

Yes. For some months—again, intake isn't always a straight line, as it does ebb and flow—we did see an alignment with waves, meaning that as communities opened up, so did people's opportunity to access medical professionals. We did see some spikes, for example, in November of 2021. Intake went up to 7,700, whereas in a normal or average month it would be more along the lines of 5,900.

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

You also noted there was a decrease of 44% in the backlog of 23,000 to just under 13,000 so far. Was this impacted by COVID numbers, resulting, at least initially, in a reduction of applications?

[Amy Meunier]

Yes—certainly within April, May and June of 2020, but as I mentioned earlier, that was quickly gained back in those months when application volume increased. There would have been a short-term difference, but it started to increase from then on. It went right back to standard levels. At the same time, in April 2020 and May of 2020, we as an organization were figuring out how to have a thousand-plus people working from home virtually. There was a bit of a double-edged sword in that dynamic.

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Did you notice a difference in productivity when people were working from home?

[Amy Meunier]

I certainly noticed a difference in productivity in those first few months, as people began to adapt to working online. When the pandemic hit, only about 10% in my organization were equipped to work from home and already in a telework-type arrangement. It did take some time for the team members to adapt to that and to know how to work virtually within their team environment.

So I would say that I did notice some impact, but the productivity quickly rebounded once people became familiar with using virtual tools and how to work in a virtual team environment.

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Thank you. Is it fair to say, then, that now productivity, with people working from home, is the same as it was prepandemic?

[Amy Meunier]

I think that's fair...if not, maybe even more efficient.

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

That's good to hear.

This committee did a study on the veterans backlog, obviously. Are you able to say how many adjudicators have been hired since that study was completed?

[Amy Meunier]

I assume you just mean decision-makers. We have different names there. One is specifically entitled “disability adjudicator”.

We have hired close to 518 individuals since the time of that report. Of that, about 70% are decision-makers.

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Would the rest be what you call “case workers”, then?

[Amy Meunier]

No, I would call them “intake officers”. The individual isn't making a decision but receives the application. We have “service verification officers” and those types of positions.

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

So it's roughly about 350. Okay.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Caputo.

I'd now like to invite Honourable Member Wilson Miao to take the last round of questions.

You have five minutes, please.

[Wilson Miao, Liberal, Richmond Centre, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for attending today's study.

Can you please tell us what role and mandate the Office of Women and LGBTQ2 Veterans has? Why was this office set up?

[Steven Harris]

The role of the office is to accomplish a couple of things. It's to be a key focal point for our stakeholder community to be able to reach out and to better understand the needs of our women veterans, of our LGBTQ veterans. As Ms. Meunier noted before, we don't collect information on LGBTQ veterans specifically. It's not part of something that's included in information or on an application form or things of that nature. One of the avenues the office uses is to make sure that they're in contact with stakeholder groups and communities that support LGBTQ2 veterans.

For example, I know that you will have Mr. Ross here in the second hour. We consult with him and his group, Rainbow Veterans, regularly from a stakeholder point of view to understand whether or not there are any challenges that the LGBTQ community may be facing with Veterans Affairs and any adjustments that we might be able to make on that front.

That's one element of it. Internally it helps us too in working with various areas, including Ms. Meunier's for applications on disability benefits, but we also have a lot of other programs. We have programs that work on education and training and programs that work on career transitions. We want to make sure that for our women veterans and for our LGBTQ veterans they're also serving them well. They work with those various areas to make sure that the programs that are in place are supportive and able to be flexible enough to vary in terms of the needs of veterans who may have different requirements, frankly, from our programming.

So it plays an external function in terms of interfacing with various communities, but it also plays a function within the department of making sure that the programs and policies and the operations help to take into consideration any needs that may be different from different communities of veterans.

[Wilson Miao, Liberal, Richmond Centre, BC]

Are there any issues or barriers being identified through this office? What is being done to address them?

[Steven Harris]

There are a couple of issues. Sometimes those issues are individual. It might be an issue faced by an individual veteran. Collectively, there may be issues that are brought forward.

Some of them are issues we've discussed at this committee before, with respect to delays with women veterans' applications. They may be because of rules, programs or descriptions in place that are a bit old or out of date, or that don't reflect the need of our women veterans, for example.

In Ms. Meunier's area, we're making adjustments to ensure that any policy, program, or guidance document is good to reflect the needs of the broad variety of the veteran community who might come forward in that area. That's true across our other areas. We have a veterans independence program that helps support veterans at home.

There may be needs that are different in the context of a female veteran versus a male veteran. We need to make sure that those are taken into consideration. That's true for the broad variety of programming that exists on that front. We're making changes to those as we learn about any barriers or difficulties that are faced.

[Wilson Miao, Liberal, Richmond Centre, BC]

That's very good to hear.

Does the information from this flow through to the adjudicators of veterans' claims, so that they're better equipped to deal with claims from women and LGBTQ2 veterans?

[Amy Meunier]

It certainly does. It's coming in two ways, from that strategic level and, from what we're hearing, directly from veterans.

To give you an example, on our application form you're asked to provide your name. We had an application from a male, and while we were seeking out their service health records, it kept coming back as though the individual hadn't served. The reality is that they had served, but after their service, they transitioned to male.

We want to change our application form to be much more inclusive, so that individuals have an opportunity to express themselves and have an accurate record of their time in service. That would be applicable to women with married names in the service, but who later divorce. The name alone can create a lot of challenges and obstacles within the process.

We're rooting out.... I offer that as one tactical example of improving the process.

[Wilson Miao, Liberal, Richmond Centre, BC]

Thank you, Ms. Meunier.

Is there any future plan for this office or its mandate?

I know my time is up. I'll maybe save that for later.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you so much, Mr. Miao.

Ladies and gentlemen, that's all the time we have for this portion of the meeting. I'd like to thank the committee members and the witnesses for having kept to the speaking time that was allocated to them.

On behalf of the committee members, I'd like to thank the witnesses for their contribution to this study and for their services to veterans.

From the Department of Veterans Affairs, we heard from Mr. Steven Harris, Assistant Deputy Minister, Service Delivery Branch, and from Ms. Amy Meunier, Director General, Centralized Operations Division.

We are going to take a break for a few minutes, to give us enough time to welcome our next witnesses.

The meeting is suspended.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Good afternoon.

We are now resuming the meeting.

I would like to make a few comments for the benefit of the new witnesses.

Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. When you are ready to speak, you can click on your microphone icon to activate your microphone. I'll remind you that all comments should be addressed through the chair.

The interpretation services available for this videoconference are approximately the same as those provided during the committee's usual meetings. At the bottom of the screen, you can choose Floor, English, or French.

Please speak slowly and clearly. When you are not speaking, please mute your microphone.

I would now like to welcome our witnesses. Although the notice of meeting shows that Ms. Sherry Bordage would be attending, she's not here. However, I'm pleased to welcome Mr. Todd Ross, the Co-Chair of the Rainbow Veterans of Canada, and Mr. Oliver Thorne, the Executive Director of the Veterans Transition Network.

Each of them will have five minutes for their presentations. Mr. Ross will begin, followed by Mr. Thorne.

Mr. Ross, please turn your microphone on and go ahead.

[Todd Ross, Co-Chair, Rainbow Veterans of Canada]

Thank you, Chair.

[Member spoke in Anishinabe and provided the following translation:]

I introduced myself as Wabinaquot, my spirit name. I am from the Eagle Clan. My grandmother is from Duck Lake. I am Métis and a citizen of the Métis Nation of Ontario.

I am joining you today from the unceded and unsurrendered lands of Wolastoqey in what is known as Menahkwesk, now called the City of Saint John.

My name is Todd Ross and I am co-chair of Rainbow Veterans of Canada.

I am pleased to be here today to speak to you about service delivery for 2SLGBTQ+ veterans, and I applaud the committee's effort to undertake this study. I would note that I hope, in the future, that the committee includes services to first nation, Inuit and Métis veterans as part of this work.

I'm a veteran and one of the lead plaintiffs in the class action lawsuit known as the “LGBT Purge”. Rainbow Veterans of Canada was created shortly after the class action suit to fill a gap by being an advocacy and education organization to 2SLGBTQ+ veterans. We serve those who were part of the urge and all 2SLGBTQ+ veterans.

This year marks the 30th anniversary of the removal of the ban on LGBT people serving openly in the military, while many of us just recently started our relationship with Veterans Affairs.

When I received my honourable discharge in 1990, I was told that I would never qualify for services from Veterans Affairs and that I was not a veteran. This was common for many purge survivors.

Purge survivors tend to be older, with high rates of mental health challenges. With years of experiencing homophobia and transphobia in society, many of us avoided Veterans Affairs, because we did not feel that we could trust VAC, and there was a fear of not being safe, but we have seen a dramatic change in recent years.

Veterans Affairs created a dedicated 1-800 number and dedicated staff for LGBT veterans around the same time as the apology in the House of Commons. We have witnessed great work from VAC since the apology. We have noted the leadership of the minister to work with 2SLGBTQ+ veterans, and we greatly appreciate the work of the new directorate for women and 2SLGBTQ+ veterans. These efforts are removing many of the roadblocks to services that had previously existed.

There are four areas I would like to point out today, which I believe need change to assist 2SLGBTQ+ veterans.

First, staff at VAC need ongoing training to be aware of the history of the LGBT purge and the challenges facing all 2SLGBTQ+ veterans. Rainbow Veterans is pleased to continue to assist with this training.

Second, dealing with staff at VAC can be intimidating to veterans. The high turnover of case managers is particularly harmful. For example, one veteran recently had four case managers in the past year. That means that four times they had to recount their personal story and be retraumatized each time. 2SLGBTQ+ veterans receive a “blue zone” classification. This is a priority designation. I would suggest that district directors be aware of case managers who are most familiar with the LGBT purge and match these case managers to the blue zone clients in their district.

Third, many purge survivors are older and are approaching Veterans Affairs for the first time in their lives. Those over 65 are told that they have aged out and do not qualify for benefits. Veterans Affairs needs to take responsibility for assisting these veterans even after age 65. There have been some exemptions, but there have also been veterans turned away. These veterans should receive the benefits for rehabilitation and an income benefit after 65.

Finally, we need to feel welcomed. After being shut out for so long, we need to see ourselves reflected in communications, and we need to see more services be inclusive in both VAC and other organizations that are funded by VAC to deliver services. We need to see more 2SLGBTQ+ veterans and partnerships profiled, and we suggest that there be a safe space designation at physical locations and on the VAC website.

I thank you for allowing me to present to the committee today, and I thank you for undertaking this review.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you so much, Mr. Ross, for your introduction.

Now I would like to invite Mr. Thorne to speak for five minutes.

Go ahead, please.

[Oliver Thorne, Executive Director, Veterans Transition Network]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Hello, everybody, and thank you for the opportunity to speak today.

My name is Oliver Thorne. I am the executive director of the Veterans Transition Network, a registered Canadian charity headquartered in Vancouver but operating across Canada, which provides transition and counselling programs for Canadian Forces veterans.

Before starting, I'd like to apologize to the francophone members of the committee, because all my testimony will be in English. Unfortunately, my French is not good enough for me to testify accurately in that language. However, the provision of bilingual services is a very important objective for our organization. If you would like to discuss our programs in more depth in French, I'd be happy to put you in contact with our Quebec program coordinator.

As I mentioned, VTN is a registered Canadian charity. The program we deliver has a 10-year history. It was initially developed at the University of British Columbia in the late 1990s. In 2013, our organization was incorporated with the mission of expanding that program across Canada.

For the past nine years, our goal has been increasing the accessibility of this program, with three key focuses: geography, gender and language. First is making the program accessible in as many places as possible around Canada. Second is ensuring that our program is uniquely tailored and adapted to the experiences and the needs of women in the Canadian Forces. Third, and finally, is ensuring that we are able to provide the same level of service in English and in French.

In 2012, when we first started, we were delivering programs in British Columbia only, for men only and in English. This year, we're delivering, in eight provinces across Canada from coast to coast, programs for men and women in English and in French. Twenty-five percent to 40% of our programs on an annual basis are women's programs, and about 15% to 20% of our programs are French programs.

We've also been a registered service provider to Veterans Affairs Canada for eight years. This means that they will cover the cost of attendance of veterans who attend our program with an eligible claim for Veterans Affairs. That makes up about 15% of the veterans we serve. For the remaining 85%, we raise the funds to put them through the program at no cost to them.

In my testimony today, while I cannot speak specifically about VAC services—although we are a VAC service provider, we focus on our own service delivery—I can certainly speak about the lessons we've learned through expanding these programs over the past eight years and how it relates to differences in service delivery.

I have four major points.

In our experience, first and foremost is point one: Cultural competence is a key requirement to working successfully with veterans in a mental health context. This is true for all Canadian veterans, but it's particularly true for groups who are a minority or are marginalized within the veteran population, because their identify affects the experience of their military service, their needs and their needs in transition after service. I can provide follow-up examples in the question period.

The second point is that there is a very important distinction between injuries sustained in service to the Canadian Forces and injuries caused by service to the Canadian Forces. Again, this is particularly true for minority or marginalized groups in the military, such as women and LGBTQ+ veterans. Their traumatic injuries are often caused by the institution, not by their military service itself. This affects the services they need, how they engage with services—as Todd talked about—the trust they have for institutions and how they may request services. This highlights the need for non-governmental service providers such as our organization and Todd's organization.

Third, because of these previous two points, service offerings must therefore be uniquely developed and tailored to the needs of these individuals in order to be helpful and to be competent in helping them.

Finally, point four is that because of the historical stigma around mental health within the military, veterans of the Canadian Armed Forces are often resistant to help-seeking and only reach out at the point where they are approaching or in crisis. The result, then, is that we need services that are professional and tailored to their needs and that are quickly accessible when they reach out, because if they are not met with a hand that reaches back providing service, we risk that they will disengage from the process of help-seeking entirely and be lost.

Subject to your questions, that's all I have. Thank you very much.