Veterans Affairs Committee on Oct. 19th, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 65 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Veterans Affairs. Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on Tuesday, September 26, 2023, the committee is commencing a briefing with the Minister of Veterans Affairs and departmental officials.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format. Some committee members are therefore participating online.

To ensure that the meeting runs smoothly, I have the following instructions for you.

For those in the room who wish to speak, we will look after turning on the microphones, but those participating by video conference must turn on their own microphones before speaking. In addition, all comments should be addressed through the chair.

I have an important reminder. When you have the floor, please avoid bringing your earpiece close to the microphone, as this causes significant feedback, making it difficult for our interpreters to do their job. So please be mindful of that throughout the meeting.

In accordance with the committee's routine motion, I wish to inform you that all witnesses have completed the required connection tests prior to the meeting.

Now I would like to welcome our witnesses. We have the Honourable Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Minister of Veterans Affairs and Associate Minister of National Defence.

Welcome.

From the Department of Veterans Affairs we have Steven Harris, assistant deputy minister, service delivery branch; Sara Lantz, assistant deputy minister, chief financial officer and corporate services, by video conference; Paul Ledwell, deputy minister; Amy Meunier, assistant deputy minister, strategic policy and commemoration, by video conference also; and, by video conference, we have Pierre Tessier, assistant deputy minister, strategic policy, planning and performance branch.

We will now begin the first round of questions.

Committee regulars know the purpose of the two coloured cards I use. Each person will have the floor for five or six minutes. When they have one minute left, I will let them know. When their time is up, we'll have to turn off their microphone, unfortunately.

I now invite the minister to deliver her opening remarks.

Minister, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Minister of Veterans Affairs and Associate Minister of National Defence]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Chair, members of the committee, thank you for inviting me to appear before the committee today to speak about some of my priorities as the Minister of Veterans Affairs and the Associate Minister of National Defence. To be entrusted with this important portfolio is both an honour and a privilege.

I'm from Dieppe, New Brunswick. This small Acadian town was renamed in 1946 to commemorate those who lost their lives in action in Dieppe, France, during the Second World War. Growing up, we all heard about the Dieppe raid and the sacrifices made by many in the name of peace, freedom and democracy.

After all these years, it's an honour for me to work on behalf of the hundreds of thousands of Canadians who have donned our country's uniform in times of war, military conflict and peace.

As minister, my first priority is to make sure THAT Canada's veterans have access to programs and services, and to support them when and where they need them, as quickly and as efficiently as possible. I am aware of the many challenges that Veterans Affairs has experienced with processing benefit applications and getting veterans into the system. Addressing this continues to be my top priority.

Like my predecessor, I am fully committed to resolving this issue, and I am confident that we will continue to make considerable progress to that end.

As of September 30, the number of disability claims in excess of the 16‑week service standard stood at 5,433, approximately 16,000 fewer cases than as of June 30, 2020. During that period, the total number of pending claims also dropped by over 13,000, from 45,296 to 31,481.

Our efforts have resulted in a reduction of the backlog of over 75%, but we are not stopping there. We will continue to explore all options and opportunities to improve how we support veterans and their families with the programs and services they need and to which they are entitled.

Another priority of mine, Mr. Chair, is to ensure that our veterans are always remembered and honoured for their service and their sacrifice, whether they fought at Juno Beach or helped respond to the Swissair disaster in Nova Scotia.

Twice in the past few years I have joined delegations that have travelled to Europe to visit Dieppe and other historic locations where Canadians have sacrificed and shed blood to defend democracy, human rights, peace, freedom and security. Both times, I have to say, I was humbled to hear from veterans about how their combat experience shaped their lives, and I was honoured to pay them tribute for the sacrifice they made on our behalf.

In September, I travelled to Nova Scotia to mark the 25th anniversary of the Swissair Flight 111 crash, and to Germany to celebrate the 2023 Invictus Games. Those two events reminded me that our servicemen and women continue to face enormous risks that most of us will never understand. These soldiers deserve all our gratitude for their service, as we continue to pay tribute to the valiant Canadians who participated in the major conflicts of the 20th century.

Finally, I want to tell the committee and all Canadian Armed Forces veterans that I am committed to ensuring that every veteran knows that we are attentive to their needs and responsive to their concerns.

Veterans have the right to receive services that correspond to their unique needs and unique experiences. That is why my department established an indigenous veterans engagement team that builds on the work the team has already been doing to support women veterans and also 2SLGBTQI+ veterans.

This dedicated team, comprised entirely of indigenous employees, has been meeting with indigenous communities across the country. Since May 31 of this year, they've conducted more than 30 outreach visits to ensure that first nations, Métis and Inuit veterans are aware of the programs and services available through Veterans Affairs and that they are receiving the support that they need.

As minister, it is my top priority to ensure that every veteran, regardless of gender identity, sexual orientation, race, ethnicity, language or religion, receives the quality care and support he or she deserves, as quickly and efficiently as possible.

Once again, thank you so much for inviting us to be here today.

We are now pleased to answer your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you very much, Minister.

I would like to welcome one of our members, Mr. Chahal, on the screen. He is replacing Mr. Sarai.

I would also like to welcome all of our guests in the room.

I especially welcome all veterans in the room.

Now we are going to start with the first round of questions of six minutes each, and I invite Mr. Richards to start, please.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Welcome, Minister. I want to talk to you about a couple of the things that you mentioned in your opening remarks in terms of your priorities.

One of the priorities you mentioned was ensuring that veterans are remembered. The pinnacle of remembrance in this country—and it shouldn't be the only time we remember—is November 11, Remembrance Day. That's a time when thousands of Canadians gather to pay their respects to those who have given the ultimate sacrifice and to show their support for our men and women who have served and who continue to serve. One of the key elements for many people in those ceremonies is an element of prayer. Unfortunately, there was a directive that came out under your government on October 11 indicating that Canadians will no longer be able to engage in prayer at public ceremonies such as Remembrance Day.

Can you tell us what's behind that decision that your government's made? Why are you telling Canadians that they don't have the right and the ability to pray for those who've fallen and those who fought for this country?

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Richards. It's great to see you. We sat on PROC together, I believe, several years ago, and it's always good to see you at this committee.

I want to be extremely clear with respect to the question that was asked yesterday in the House of Commons, and I'll be frank, Mr. Richards, that question really took me by surprise and left me shaking my head.

I want to be very clear. There has been no directive that no prayer at all is allowed at Remembrance Day services.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

I'm sorry to interrupt.

That is, in fact, inaccurate. I have the directive that was sent. If the committee would like to give unanimous consent, I'd be happy to table that directive. It's very clear. It is indicating to chaplains that they are not to engage in prayer at our Remembrance Day ceremony.

I'd be happy to table that at committee.

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Mr. Richards, again, I disagree with you completely on that.

We've looked into this matter and it's very clear that we certainly want.... There was a directive given out by the chaplain general with respect to this situation, and it does not say prayer is not allowed at the Remembrance Day ceremonies. It's actually to the contrary, Mr. Richards.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

It makes it quite clear.

Sixty-eight per cent of Canadians identify themselves as religious, and 54% of them indicate that it's incredibly important in their lives. To tell people they wouldn't be able to engage in that activity at a public ceremony that honours our soldiers is sad.

I would be happy to table that document with the committee.

Let's move on, then, seeing as you aren't going to acknowledge the existence of that directive.

Let's move to another topic you mentioned in your opening remarks: access to programs and services.

You've been minister for almost three months now. I'm sure you've had the opportunity to engage with some veterans and have discussions. I'm wondering what you're hearing from veterans when you talk to them.

Are they generally happy? Are they generally satisfied with the programs and services, and with the quality of service they're receiving from Veterans Affairs?

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Thank you.

With respect to my service, I've been appointed for almost three months now and have made it my priority, to be frank, to get out in the community from coast to coast to coast, in order to meet with veterans and stakeholders. It's very important for me to hear from them. My mother always told me, “Ginette, you have two ears and one mouth.” It's important to listen to folks on the ground. I have a lot to learn from veterans, and also from organizations serving veterans.

I have to say the feedback I've received has been.... I've received some very positive feedback with respect to services veterans are receiving from Veterans Affairs Canada, but again, I think we can always improve.

As I've indicated to individuals, if we don't hear about the areas that perhaps need improvement, we can't make those changes.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

You're telling me you're generally hearing positive.... You're not hearing from a lot of veterans who have concerns about the quality of service.

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

I have not said that, Mr. Richards. You're putting words in my mouth.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Let's get to that, then, because one thing I hear often from veterans is that they have a real lack of trust in Veterans Affairs. They tell us often that they're afraid to even speak up about their experiences, because they're afraid Veterans Affairs will retaliate against them and they'll lose the benefits and services they may have now. There's a real fear and lack of trust.

I'm wondering whether you can, from your conversations with veterans, tell me why you think that lack of trust exists.

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Mr. Richards, I think we have to take a step back.

If we look at when individuals apply for benefits through Veterans Affairs.... We certainly recognize that 80% of people—and correct me if I'm wrong, Steven or Paul—are usually approved during their first application process. When Veterans Affairs Canada is looking at claims, it wants to approve these claims. The people who work at Veterans Affairs Canada want to provide services to veterans and—

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

I'm sorry, Minister. Obviously, we have very limited time here.

Really, what it comes down to, I guess, is this: Veterans need to feel that way. I'm not even disputing that Veterans Affairs wants to provide that, but I think there are many veterans who don't feel that way. You often hear the term “delay, deny, die”. That's a term many veterans use. That's the feeling they have about...what they're hearing from Veterans Affairs.

Can you tell me why you think that lack of trust exists, and are you personally happy with the level and quality of care veterans are receiving?

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Answer in 15 seconds, please. We don't have much time.

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Mr. Richards, I truly believe any department can always do better,

Being the minister responsible for this file is an honour and a privilege. My commitment to veterans—if they are here today or listening—is that we certainly want to make any improvements we can to make sure they get the quality care they deserve. They served this country and deserve to have quality service from our department.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Minister.

Now, I'd like to invite Mr. Casey on the screen for six minutes, to start.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Thank you, Chair.

Welcome, Minister. Congratulations on your appointment. As you know, this is a very important role for my fellow citizens. Our riding is the only one outside the national capital region to house the headquarters of a federal government department. So I hope we'll see you there regularly.

Minister, it's too bad that I always have to do this, but I do. You were asked questions by Mr. Richards. He didn't like your response, so he interrupted you.

Now is your chance to say what you wanted to say before you were interrupted, in particular with respect to his allegation—

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Excuse me, there is a point of order.

Mr. Richards.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

On a point of order, Chair, I think it's incumbent upon members to try to be accurate with statements. The member is indicating an interruption because someone didn't like the answers—

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Mr. Richards, it looks like debate—

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

It needs to be clear that there's only so much time members are given to ask the questions they would like. It's their prerogative.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Mr. Richards, it looks like debate.

You had your six minutes, Mr. Richards.

Now Mr. Casey, please go ahead.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

I hope you feel better, Minister; you're not the only one who gets interrupted.

My question for you is this. You attempted to answer Mr. Richards' question with regard to the directive from the department with respect to prayer on Remembrance Day. Go ahead and finish your answer.

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Thank you very much for that, Sean.

First and foremost, as indicated, actually the directive did not come from the department. I want to be clear. A directive was put forward by the chaplain general of DND. Let's be absolutely clear: In no way did that directive ban prayer at all.

To the contrary, the directive simply indicated that they wanted to ensure that when the chaplains did their public address, they made sure they were inclusive. It was to make sure that the veterans, the people and the members of the Canadian Armed Forces who were there felt reflected in the spiritual prayers that were made.

As such, I actually have a quote here that I want to read for the record. Chaplains shall “endeavour to ensure that all feel included and able to participate in the reflection...no matter their beliefs.”

I really have to believe that all Canadians would agree with that directive.

I know that when I'm in Moncton, New Brunswick and I attend my Remembrance Day ceremonies, where we have the chaplain and someone from the Jewish faith and someone who gives us a moment of reflection.

We simply want to make sure that all Canadians who are attending the Remembrance Day events—this is the directive that was provided by the chaplain general, I should qualify that—feel a part of these services.

In no way is anyone saying that prayer is not allowed. It's to the contrary.