Veterans Affairs Committee on March 22nd, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

You know that we adopted procedures at the very beginning of the committee that we must follow. So you have one minute left, Mr. Desilets.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

I would like to take this opportunity to thank our four witnesses once again. I've obviously focused on the francophones, but these are moving and poignant testimonies, really poignant. I know that there are also inequities in the processing of applications from anglophones. The witnesses told us about them. I would have liked to question them, but unfortunately, I did not have time.

Thank you, I salute you, I love you.

I'll just ask one last question.

Ms. Laverdure, given the thousand or so cases you've handled over the past 12 years, apart from the delay issue, do you still feel that there's been an improvement in claims processing?

I'm looking for something positive.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Ms. Laverdure, I would ask you to respond in 15 seconds. Mr. Desilets will have an opportunity to come back to this later.

[Brigitte Laverdure]

We're seeing an improvement in Quebec in terms of how the department processes claims, but that may not be the case everywhere in Canada.

The deadline is shorter for any claim related to psychological health, because these people are often in distress. In Montreal, a person has been appointed to handle only those types of claims, such as anxiety or post‑traumatic stress disorder. So the responses are sent a little more quickly.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Ms. Laverdure.

Ms. Blaney, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you again, Chair.

I would like to come back to Madame Laverdure. I really appreciate and hear your frustration as you talk about the reality you are facing every single day, how hard you are fighting to get these veterans recognized and how long the delay is.

I have two questions for you. First, do you see a difference for the francophone community by gender—between women and men—in the timelines? I'm curious whether you are seeing anything unique that differentiates those two particular groups.

Second, how long have you been advocating to VAC about the delays you are seeing for the francophone community?

[Brigitte Laverdure]

There is indeed a difference between the treatment of female veterans and male veterans. There has been an improvement over the past few months with respect to the sexual misconduct class action lawsuit. The Department of Veterans Affairs has set up a special group for women who have been victims of sexual assault and sexual misconduct. With regard to the physical health applications, the wait times are still very long.

As for your second question, I've noticed over the past five years that the department has had a great deal of difficulty in responding to claims.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you for that.

Finally, what is the most profound impact of these delays on the folks who are trying to get those services?

[Brigitte Laverdure]

As I mentioned in my opening remarks, many veterans drop out of the process and sometimes end up on the street. Some go through a divorce and lose custody of their children. Others do the irreparable: they take their own lives.

I personally experienced this situation last winter when I was asked to support a veteran from the Montreal area. I had started the process, but given the holidays and the COVID‑19 pandemic, we were told that the process would be long.

Shortly thereafter, the veteran's spouse called me to tell me that he had found her dead in the bathroom; she died by suicide.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Ms. Laverdure.

There will now be four interventions of five minutes each: Mr. Caputo, Mr. Samson, Mrs. Wagantall and Mrs. Valdez. After that, Mr. Desilets and Ms. Blaney will each have two and a half minutes to ask questions in order to keep to the schedule.

I'd also like to talk to you very briefly about the next meeting.

Mr. Caputo, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Again, what we're hearing has been very captivating. One of you is a published author. I think that all of you should consider writing books, because you all have very interesting stories to tell. That's not something I say lightly. I mean that. I'd love to read this, because what we get here is just a snapshot. It's not fully what we could hear. I encourage you and affirm you in the work that you're all doing in keeping going. Thank you for that.

I've heard a couple of comments here that struck me, particularly as they relates to the purge. One of the comments was that people couldn't believe that this happened in Canada, as if there were some caseworkers who were surprised by that or weren't aware of it, depending on their age or their experience and things like that.

One of the things that came to mind, particularly for my riding, where 215 children were discovered at the residential school in Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, are the enduring impacts of that. I'm wondering if there is any sort of parallel to be drawn. Yes, this happened 30 years ago, but there are still lingering impacts of the purge.

I open this up to any of the witnesses. Does anybody wish to comment on whether they've seen that, or is this something that's really in the past?

[Michelle Douglas]

Perhaps I could take a start at answering that question. Obviously, I'm very cautious about drawing direct comparisons. The devastating impact of residential schools stands as such a horror in Canada that I'll be very careful to not draw comparisons.

We know that the LGBT purge had a devastating effect on some estimated 9,000 Canadians, people who were trying to serve their country in the Canadian Armed Forces, public service and the RCMP. These folks were giving their all, and in some cases their lives, to serve Canadians and Canada, and yet they were treated horribly by the state. I think we're doing everything we can to try to tell these stories.

There's a great documentary done by Sarah Fodey called The Fruit Machine. It's available for free online and you can have a look at it. It really shows quite viscerally the impact and the trauma of the purge.

We're going to tell that story through the national monument and through an exhibit at the Canadian Museum for Human Rights, and in some ways take off a little bit of the veneer that everything was okay. It wasn't okay, and we have to tell those hard stories.

I think all Canadians are coming to terms with some of the history that we have been through.

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Thank you for that.

I appreciate what you said at the beginning. Certainly what I was trying to get at was that sometimes our past really does inform the difficulties that we continue to endure because of the past.

I'm not sure if any of the other witnesses wish to comment at all.

[Sgt Nina Charlene Usherwood]

I would be interested in mentioning that I have a chronic health condition as a result of my service, and specifically about the way that I had to protect myself so I could continue to serve in the forces. Thirty years of trauma gives you a chronic health condition. I don't know how to put it more bluntly than that.

Thank you.

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Sergeant, that just speaks volumes, because those around you are impacted by that. That's why I think your story is so meaningful, and that's the type of thing I think we really need to hear.

When you talk about 30 years of trauma, you have loved ones, friends, family. You talked about your wife earlier. That's the type of thing I was getting at in asking the question. These impacts are obviously substantial and they're going to be ongoing. To me, it highlights the need for education. We talked about that earlier, that sometimes that education is missing, so I thank you for that, because that really brought clarity. I do look forward—

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Your time is up.

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Oh, thank you.

I was just going to say thank you and I look forward to visiting the museum and the exhibition when it's open.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Caputo.

Now I'd like to invite MP Darrell Samson to use his five minutes.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Thank you very much.

First, I want to thank you for what you shared today. I also want to thank you for your service, which is extremely important, and for sharing your personal stories. It's very difficult, but very important, and for that I thank you sincerely.

When I hear the phrase “suck it up”, which I've heard so often in the military from military men and women, that was the way it was at that time, and for a long time. I know that a lot of people lost opportunities to have data about some of their challenges while they served, because they sucked it up. They didn't talk about it, and that is a big issue today, because we're trying to get them the benefits they deserve, and the alignment is complicated because of that.

I don't know if any of you were in the House of Commons back in 2017, I think it was, when our government apologized to the public service LGBTQ2+. It was very moving, and I could only imagine how the individuals who were there felt, or Canadians who were watching, because it was important. It was a long time coming. It should have come forward, of course.

I'd like to focus very quickly and try to touch on a couple of quick issues.

The first one is the office of women and LGBTQ2+ secretariat. I'm opening it up very quickly because I probably have four minutes now, and I know that Monsieur Caputo is not going to give me some of his time.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

He's already given it to his colleague from the Bloc.

That said, have you had any dealings with them? Do you know anything about them? Can you share something about that? Basically, they're there to share some of the influences from the research so they can make changes to policies or suggest changes.

It can also make people aware of the situation.

In looking at the barriers, just quickly, we'll go right to Brigitte Laverdure.

I'd ask you to keep your answers brief because we only have 30 seconds each.

[Brigitte Laverdure]

As I mentioned earlier, I think there needs to be more of a team blitz to deal with claims that are assigned to case managers. There could be service officers or liaison officers who would be responsible for monitoring and mentoring veterans.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Thank you very much, Ms. Laverdure.

Sgt Nina Charlene Usherwood, do you have any comments on this?

[Sgt Nina Charlene Usherwood]

I have had no interaction with them. In fact, I didn't even know they existed until a few months ago, because of lack of information. Veterans Affairs, frankly, doesn't advertise very well.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Okay. Thank you for that information. It's important for us to know that so we can use other ways of reaching individuals.

Next is Michelle Douglas.