Veterans Affairs Committee on March 22nd, 2022

[Sgt Nina Charlene Usherwood]

The biggest thing is to assign caseworkers. This having to call in and never knowing whom you'll get.... I went through the same thing with my dad. Because he had dementia, I had to be his advocate, and it was exactly the same thing: Each time, we have to get a new person.

Not having a caseworker means that you have to go back over and over and tell them the same thing. That's part of the trauma. I've spent last 13 years or whatever doing exactly that: explaining who I am.

[Rechie Valdez, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Thank you so much for sharing.

Hopefully I can squeeze this in.

Ms. Douglas, last year the VAC department added a team dedicated to female applicants and veterans, and you mentioned proper training to support the specific needs of females. Can you elaborate more on your recommendations for the department?

[Michelle Douglas]

Yes. I think there should be a basic awareness of how LGBTQ2 people should be respected and addressed.

I would make many of the points that Nina made about how just fundamental matters of respect and training are required so that people don't feel as though they're being retraumatized by a department that is, by and large, doing very good things to help them. The first impression really needs to be very positive, and so we should be working on those kinds of opportunities for those kinds of communications so they know what they're getting into.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Madam Douglas, I'm sorry to interrupt you once again, but we have only six minutes.

I now give the floor for six minutes to the second vice-chair of the committee, Mr. Luc Desilets.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I thank our guests for their presence, service and availability.

I want to preface my questions with a preamble, because I have to say that I am somewhat in shock today.

Three weeks ago, the committee received figures that I had been asking for, for months and months. These figures were quite interesting: there was virtually no difference between French and English speakers in terms of the processing of their applications. Being a good sport, I sent my thanks. After all, when it's positive, you should say so.

According to these figures, then, there was about a week's difference.

Now, there's a little problem. This morning we have seen a report from the Library of Parliament that has completely different figures, figures such as we have never seen before. I am not the one putting forward these figures, the researchers at the Library of Parliament are.

According to this report, in the July-September 2021 quarter, the median gap was 55.6 weeks. In practical terms, this means that the average processing time for applications was 20.4 weeks for English speakers, while it was 76 weeks for French speakers. I did not invent these figures. That's a response time of 19 months for francophones—yes,19 months.

I will quickly explain what the median is, as we are talking about the median waiting period here. This means that 50% of the applications made by francophones were processed in less than 19 months and for the other half of the applications, processing took more than 19 months.

I am amazed. If I weren't in such a prestigious venue, I would feel like uttering a string of swear words. It's unacceptable. It makes me angry. We rely on the results and the numbers that are presented here. A committee like ours is not inconsequential. It's sort of the ultimate authority when it comes to asking questions about veterans. This is quite simply unacceptable. I found out about it this morning and had to go and take a nap in the afternoon, I needed to decompress so badly.

I have a request to make of my very dear Liberal and neo-Liberal colleagues. Can you please look at these figures? Despite our very different political allegiances, I cannot believe that you will not make the required efforts with us.

I'm happy, in a way, to step in at the very moment when we're dealing with the gaps, but, at the same time, I find it dramatic. Once again, francophones are being given short shrift.

There is something I don't understand about our system. On February 23, 2022, $146 million was allocated to remedy the problem. Last year it was $192 million. The year before, in 2020, it was $90 million. At some point, we wondered whether there was a structural problem. No matter how much money we throw at it and how much we try to hire staff, it does not solve the problem. But the problem must be solved. These are people who have to go through this, people who have served the nation, who have served Quebec and Canada. This makes me mad as a hornet; in other words, it makes me angry.

I'm decompressing.

My first question is for Ms. Laverdure, in light of these contradictions.

Ms. Laverdure, we have indeed had the opportunity to speak many times. You are a peer support worker, and I really commend that. We need you more than ever, given these interminable wait times. You told me last spring, if I am not mistaken, that you had tested the system by submitting applications written in English and others in French. Can you tell us about that, please?

[Brigitte Laverdure]

Yes, of course.

Last spring, I helped a veteran who lived close to the Outaouais-Ontario border. I asked him if he had any objections to us making his claim in English so I could test the system. He replied that he had no problem with it. He received a positive response in less than seven weeks. He received a reply in less than seven weeks, whereas we wait for years. This is the case for me, personally, and also for my spouse.

I am the boots on the ground. I'm not sitting in an office. I'm in the field 12 months a year, 24 hours a day, and have been for the last 12 years. Along the way, we've lost people. People give up and lose hope.

That's what I had to add to that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you very much, Ms. Laverdure.

Thank you, Mr. Desilets.

I now turn the floor over to Ms. Rachel Blaney for six minutes.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate this.

I want to thank all the people who testified today, and I especially those of you who've served for your tremendous service to us and your personal sacrifice. That is something very specific to those of you who have served. You have served, and you have personally sacrificed to bring forward these realities so that we can do a better job. Thank you for that and your advocacy, your dedication and your work.

If I may, I'll start with you, Sergeant Usherwood. It's a little bit weird to call you that, Nina, but that's how it works.

I want to thank you first of all for sharing your story. That was incredibly personal, and it's important that those words are on the record.

One thing that really had an impact on me in listening to that story is this idea of hiding and then consistently having to explain yourself. That's something that I hope everybody takes away from this. When we have groups in our communities who have to hide who they are, and then once we open those doors, they have to continuously explain, something is falling apart that should not be falling apart and we need to rectify that.

I also want to thank you so much for giving us all a copy of this form. That really tells us something important, which is that when you are in Defence, in the CAF, we are not identifying this particular group, so now we know that we don't have the data and the information from the LGBTQ2+. That means that when we see people transfer to Veterans Affairs, that record-keeping continues not to be meaningful.

I'm wondering if you could help us with some sort of recommendation about what VAC can do to ensure that services are delivered correctly to the stakeholder group, to the LGBTQ2+ community, if VAC doesn't even know who they are.

[Sgt Nina Charlene Usherwood]

Thank you for the question.

My suggestion, just thinking off the top of my head, because I haven't thought about this before, is that maybe when someone contacts them is to send an automatic.... Every time you phone them, you get the response, “Would you like to take part in a little survey?” Well, the survey isn't relevant to anything, to me or any of the problems I have. So maybe what they should be doing when you contact them is that they should be emailing you, or something, a survey that actually includes that kind of information and ask if you want to do it.

There are always going to be some members of the community who do not want to be exposed, who are still in a sense in hiding. I know people like that. I see it increasingly less, but there are still people out there who are not yet ready to be public about who they really are.

That would be my suggestion. Maybe they need to have a survey that says “Who are you?” as opposed to “Did we give good service?” Groceries stores do that: “Did we give good service?” I'm not sure that's really what we need.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you for that.

Change the forms and make sure that surveys ask questions: I hear that loud and clear.

You spoke also about witnessing and enduring hostility while you served and seeing members from the community go through that as well. I'm wondering if you could give us some examples. I just want to make sure that it's on the record what happens when we repress and hide.

[Sgt Nina Charlene Usherwood]

From my personal experience, part of it is that I had to isolate myself. I could not take part in any social events in the forces, because one thing the forces like to do—at least in the past—is that most social events involve drinking, so I could not lose that kind of control in such a way that it was acceptable to lose that kind of control.

As I said, even when I knew it was possible, I had friends who went through that, and it became public who they were. There is just no way that I could endure that as well as everything else. Almost all of them were forced out of the forces within a matter of months, or at most a year. To serve in that kind of poisonous, hostile environment is just unimaginable.

It's not one thing. It's just the fact that it never stops. As a panel member who was here once mentioned to me, it's the endless pinpricks, the endless, endless.... It's not any one big thing. It's just that it's endless, and that's the trauma I'm dealing with right now.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you for that. I have only a few seconds left, so my last question for you is, how would having a caseworker help with the transition?

[Sgt Nina Charlene Usherwood]

Well, to start with, it would have cut months off my application, because I had to keep going through this over and over again. I live beside a large base, but the nearest veterans centre to go to is in Victoria, which is a three-hour drive away.

It's not having anybody you could go to, to meet face to face, that makes it very hard, and also, every time I phone in, it's a different individual. As I said, I found the same thing when it was extremely difficult was to get my dad's case moved forward. That's why my mother just gave up and I had to take it on.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you.

Thank you, MP Blaney.

Now I'd like to invite MP Cathay Wagantall to go ahead for five minutes, please.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Thank you, Chair.

I want to thank all of you for being here and for the opportunity to interact with you today. It means a great deal to me as well.

I want to start first with retired Lieutenant-Colonel Sandra Perron.

You started out with a comment about being published, which is wonderful, and then you went right into the circumstances of facing a panic attack.

I'm very curious. Quickly, was that in relation to the fact that your book was going to be published? Also, is this something that's available today for us? Would it be worthwhile for us to have a look at that?

[Sandra Perron]

Yes, absolutely. Thank you for the question.

Yes, the book was published. It's called Out Standing in the Field, and in French it's Seule au front. They are making it into a movie starting in the fall, so it's—

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

That's wonderful.

[Sandra Perron]

Yes, the panic was directly related to my publishing this memoir of my time in the forces and facing those demons—

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Right.

[Sandra Perron]

—after 25 years, putting them on paper and knowing that my secrets no longer would be secret.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Yes, exactly.

I have another couple of questions for you too. You mentioned that you got all the resources you needed, yet you talk about many women you interact with who are frustrated because they cannot prove that their injuries are due to service. I hear that all the time, and not just from women, actually, but from men as well.

I went out to Dundurn when the snipers were training. They geared me up, and I said, “Oh my word, I can hardly stand up under this.” At that point they told me, “Well, Ma'am”—they always say “Ma'am” so nicely—“you don't even have any ammo in your pockets.”

I've been on this committee for some time and we hear all the time about how we have changed things and that we are giving the benefit of the doubt. Obviously, if you parachute, of course you're going to have pain in your knees, and of course all of these circumstances you mentioned.... Do you feel that this is what VAC is doing now? Is it better? Or are they still making it incredibly difficult because you cannot directly prove injury due to service?

[Sandra Perron]

I can tell you that it is evolving. My last few groups were saying how pleased they were with some of the service they've had, despite the fact that the delays were so long and really difficult to handle.

Apart from that, yes, the services are getting better from the point of view of the participants.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Great.

I'm sorry; I have so many questions.

Also, I'm aware of and have heard that a significant number of women are couch surfing or homeless. We don't realize how many women are impacted.

Would you have a sense of that? Another question along with that is, do you see a value in service dogs?

[Sandra Perron]

To answer the first part of the question, I don't have the number of women who are couch surfing. As a matter of fact, at The Pepper Pod, we offer two things. First of all, we offer respite for women who need a shelter temporarily. Also, during Christmas or New Year's, or periods of tough times, we offer single women to come and spend the holidays with other women.

We have a few of them doing that, but I don't have a number.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Okay.