Evidence of meeting #70 for Veterans Affairs in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was drug.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Randeep Sarai Liberal Surrey Centre, BC
Sure. I appreciate that.
Also, in terms of your medical records or your previous records, do you have any suggestions on that and could you elaborate on how that could be better? We'll be told one thing by somebody else, but you're somebody who has actually lived through that, with respect to how those are transferred from case manager to case manager or from CAF to VAC.
4:15 p.m.
Veteran, As an Individual
Right.
I've moved around. I've had several case managers, five different case managers, in the province of Ontario. That can take months. Even going from the Toronto office to Ottawa took six months. I had no case manager. That meant no medications. There was no continuity of care. That meant finding another doctor. Case managers get reports, but they want to do it all again. They say, “Tell me the story again” even though they have all the reports and all the information. It's all filled out on your claim forms too. That information is there. It seems a little lazy for them to just keep depending on and burdening the veteran to rehash these traumatic things over and over again instead of doing their homework. The information is there. They have it. I would recommend that if they have additional questions or they feel that maybe one of their questions wasn't answered enough, then they could ask the veteran to elaborate on that.
Thank you, Chair.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Randeep Sarai Liberal Surrey Centre, BC
Finally, really quickly because of my time, you talked about how you would like to have things led by women. Do you mean having a group to deal with women veterans to lead a team?
Could you answer that just quickly in 30 seconds?
4:15 p.m.
Veteran, As an Individual
If you want to have round tables on women veterans, you have to include the people who are most impacted. You need the lived experience of women veterans during these discussions. I've been talking about women veterans' homelessness for over five years now since I've been a VAC client. I've talked to the Veterans Ombudsman. I've talked to various non-profit organizations, City of Ottawa housing and the social housing department. They tell me it doesn't exist or that they don't have a mandate. In those five years, I have not been contacted once for a round table. Nobody has reached out to me to ask me about my lived experience. Instead they have veterans on their round tables. They are women veterans, but they don't have the lived experience of the topic at hand.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Emmanuel Dubourg
Thank you very much, Mr. Sarai.
To all witnesses, if you have additional information, feel free to send it to the clerk of the committee.
I'd now like to invite Mr. Luc Desilets to take the floor for six minutes.
4:15 p.m.
Bloc
Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
Hello, dear colleagues.
Thank you to the witnesses.
Ms. Smith, Dr. Nevin and Ms. Doucet, I thank each of you for your respective service.
Ms. Smith, you have exceptional resilience. I have a great deal of empathy for you, after everything you said. I find it very troubling. I'm a little bit ashamed to be of the same sex as those who caused you so much pain. You're brave, as the Chair just said. I'm uncomfortable asking you questions.
Did you file a complaint?
4:20 p.m.
Veteran, As an Individual
Yes and no. I have given this information to several.... I've spoken about it in Federal Court. I've given this information to many, many high-ranking officials. I've even provided the names of some of my attackers as well as pictures. Again, I've never been offered the opportunity. I still don't know what avenue I have to go forward with this. I've been told to write it down on a claim form. I feel that this goes beyond that. This is criminal activity. I know who did it. I know some of the people who did it. I'm just wondering why no one has come to me or reached out to me. I've given the information. I haven't been asked if I want to go forward with that or been presented with some options. That has not happened.
I'm still waiting.
4:20 p.m.
Bloc
Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
Am I to understand that you'd like to file complaints about all these assaults?
Mr. Chair, is there a problem with the interpretation?
4:20 p.m.
Bloc
Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
Am I to understand that you'd like to file complaints about all these assaults?
4:20 p.m.
Veteran, As an Individual
Yes, I'm guessing the question is, would I like to make a complaint?
Yes, I think that I would. I think it warrants it. I don't know what the outcome would be. I stand for accountability for people and accountability for institutions. Yes.
4:20 p.m.
Veteran, As an Individual
Could you please repeat the question? It's not working.
4:20 p.m.
Bloc
Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
Maybe you haven't selected the right channel for the English interpretation. You should be hearing the interpretation now.
To repeat the question, why do you say, “if I could”?
4:20 p.m.
Veteran, As an Individual
Why did I say, “if I could complain”? Would I complain?
It hasn't been made clear to me that I can. No one said, “Yes, you can. There is a mechanism or a path for you to go down if you want to make a complaint.”
Nobody has said that, so I'm just assuming there isn't.
4:20 p.m.
Bloc
Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
And yet, in your remarks, you alluded to a number of crimes and criminal acts. You're aware of them. Being in the army doesn't mean one is above the law. This isn't a question I'm asking, but rather an observation I'm making.
I think that you still made a number of compensation claims for physical injuries and health issues resulting from your years of service in the army. You mentioned that in passing earlier. What is the status of these compensation claims?
4:20 p.m.
Veteran, As an Individual
I've submitted 10 claims so far for physical injuries, along with my mental health and the PTSD. It took five years for me to even know that I could claim for those other injuries. I first presented to VAC and told them the story in much more detail. There are 40 pages of details of 13 months of service.
VAC at no time said, “Here's an injury report. File a claim for this. This is important.” I found out by word of mouth, years after the fact. I'm still playing catch-up to find out what I can even claim. I thought that was a VAC responsibility.
4:25 p.m.
Bloc
Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
So you're currently aware that you can make compensation claims.
Just answer yes or no.
4:25 p.m.
Bloc
Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
That's perfect. Thank you very much, Ms. Smith.
Ms. Doucet, the situation you described is rather unique. You've established a link between the health issues your child has experienced since birth and your own exposure to certain chemicals, particularly during pregnancy.
When you worked in that hangar, were you offered a transfer to a workplace away from these chemical products?
4:25 p.m.
Non-Destructive Testing Technician, As an Individual
No. In fact, I wasn't really given any options. Normally, women are removed from the floor for medical reasons. The problem is that the ventilation system circulates the air throughout the hangar, so whether you're working on the planes or in the offices on the higher floors, you can smell the jet fuel.
Normally, the hangar is ventilated before hosting outside guests. All the doors are opened so that the noxious fumes are evacuated and can't be smelled. There are even walls that can open completely. Everything is closed back up just before the parade or the arrival of the dignitaries.
Aircraft are designed to allow for some leakage in case of fuel expansion. So we place some kinds of containers under the planes to gather the fuel and prevent it from contaminating the floor. When we arrived in the morning, these containers were full. Vapours rise, so even those working in the offices above were exposed to them.
All things considered, there aren't that many options. We could conceivably be sent to procurement or other units where there wouldn't be any direct exposure to all sorts of chemicals. There's probably a way to use us in other areas of the base instead of working in the hangar.
4:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Emmanuel Dubourg
Thank you, Mr. Desilets.
For the last six minutes of this round, I'd like to invite MP Rachel Blaney, who is with us by video conference.
Go ahead. You have six minutes, please.
4:25 p.m.
NDP
Rachel Blaney NDP North Island—Powell River, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I would like to thank the folks who are here today to testify. I really appreciate what you've shared with us, particularly the very personal realities that you've had to share.
My first question is for Ms. Doucet.
I understand that you were exposed to hazardous chemicals.
Were you provided with any personal protective gear? Was any information shared with you about the hazardous chemicals and their impact or specifically about the impact of those chemicals affecting you while pregnant?
4:25 p.m.
Non-Destructive Testing Technician, As an Individual
Yes.
The PPE that we were provided with.... Obviously, it's a man's trade, so it was normally made for men. It did not fit me properly. For example, with regard to the hearing protection, to this day I still cannot fit one of those earplugs in my ear. My canals are too small for it to fit.
We didn't have access to custom earplugs.
The military didn't pay for them, so we had to pay from our own pockets if we could afford them. Normally, we're supposed to use things like double protection. That would be earplugs plus the shells.
For the chemicals we used those little rubber gloves that you can buy commercially. When you're working on airplanes, most of the time the fuel drips on your head, so even if you wear gloves you get covered with fuel. The fuel drips down your arms. We had to put rags in to prevent the fuel from running down inside our armpits and on our chest. There's no protection made for that. The gloves won't keep the fuel from dripping on you and unfortunately that's just the way it is. You're working above your head and the fuel falls down. There's no real protection except for glasses.
When we had a supervisor who was on the ball, they would tell us to wear our eyewear, or they would ask where our glasses were if we didn't wear them. There's not much protection from the fuel particles and jet exhaust fumes and heavy metals that they're filled with.
We didn't have any masks and we were not provided with them. When we walked from one hangar to another hangar behind six jets that were running and spitting out heavy metals, we walked right through it.
When we had training, they would tell us that we were supposed to wear safety goggles and gloves, but we were not provided with equipment that would fit women or small women or that would really work to protect us.