Veterans Affairs Committee on Nov. 30th, 2023

[Sgt Nina Charlene Usherwood]

The same as parents and family, they didn't understand it, but they were willing to accept what I told them. I think that's the biggest thing. I know my immediate supervisor was very puzzled about some of the decisions I would make as time went by and did not really understand it.

As I said, acceptance is at least a starting point. Nobody has walked in my shoes. Even many trans people have not experienced the life I've experienced. To actually understand someone, you have to be them.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Based on all the experience you have, could you name some units where discrimination against LGBTQ+ people is higher, and others where it is lower?

[Sgt Nina Charlene Usherwood]

Well, at the time I was in the primary reserves in Comox, and the specific other places were army units associated with Kingston, Edmonton and Gagetown.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

In these units, have you felt more open-mindedness, at times?

[Sgt Nina Charlene Usherwood]

I generally experienced open-mindedness. There was a reluctance from some of the people who I felt did not agree with what was happening to actually voice it at the time, but I know that was not the case, as I said, in other units and in the experience of other trans people.

Definitely, in other places sometimes I actually thought, felt, listening to what happened.... I think the military's policy on accommodation at the time was called guidance for transsexual individuals and I think it was CF Mil 11/9. It was out in 2011, and it was guidance for commanders and their responsibilities with accommodation for transgender individuals in the forces. At the time, I felt, listening to it in some cases, that the units were actually using the policy to discriminate against the individuals.

The policy would later be replaced in 2017, and I was actually involved in some of the policy change that went forward. It didn't go as far as I felt it should to root the forces, but as in any bureaucracy, you compromise.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Do you feel that the reactions of your colleagues and the general population towards transgender people are due to misunderstanding, a lack of education and a lack of knowledge surrounding this situation?

[Sgt Nina Charlene Usherwood]

Well, I think this is what any minority experiences. When you don't know somebody, it's easier to not understand them, and the more you know, the more you understand they're just people, the same as you. My phrase that I like to use is, “It's easier to hate what you don't know.”

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Desilets.

Let's go to Ms. Rachel Blaney for six minutes, please.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you so much, Chair. As always, everything goes through the chair.

My first question is for Ms. Usherwood. It's very good to see you, my friend.

I want to come back to a bit of your testimony. You talked about how part of the reason you came out was that you felt a lot of trust for your leadership, and that it was safe. That particular person gave you a sense of comfort in taking the next step. I know—and you said as well in your testimony—that this is not often the reality for so many other people who serve.

I'm wondering if you could tell us a little bit about what is needed within the military at that level to create systems that will provide more inclusive practices for the leadership so that we can see that safe environment increase.

[Sgt Nina Charlene Usherwood]

The military is actually trying to change its culture, as identified by Madame Deschamps in her report and in subsequent reports. It's trying to change it.

However, like anything in the government, there's a shortage of resources. There's a shortage of time and money. That's part of the problem. There are just so many things in the military that we're supposed to be getting training on, but actually we're not getting training.

For example, you're supposed to receive training in ethical behaviour every single year. Even though I was actually a trainer, I did not necessarily receive it every year.

This is a common thing in the military: There are not enough people, not enough time, not enough money, not enough resources, and there are too many missions.

One thing that I really think the military could do is get rid of some of the systemic discrimination that's in it. For example, in the Queen's Regulations and Orders, which are the regulations for the Canadian Armed Forces, in volume one, it says “he” 167 times. “She” is not in the volume in any way. There is a single sentence saying that wherever it mentions the masculine gender, that also includes the female gender.

However, if I open the book and read about commanders—and this is the book that tells the responsibilities of commanders, from the vice-chief of defence staff all the way down to the lowest officer—it always says “he”. It talks about “his” responsibility, and “he” will do this and “he” will do that.

It's a PDF. I could change the gendered nature of the book. I could probably do that myself in a couple of hours. If I just replaced it with “he/she”, it would be even quicker. I could do that in minutes. Here we are, seven years after the forces agreed to use gender-based analysis plus. Why they haven't changed those references?

In my last year, I managed to change this on my base: When the base commander is leaving, they no longer give flowers to the wife. That's what it said in the process and how that was working. Why haven't they just—

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you so much for that. That was very helpful.

I really appreciate the flower example. I think that really clears up some of those myths that should be over by now.

This is a study about what happens when people leave their service and go into the VAC system. I'm wondering if you could describe the discrimination and how it's translated into leaving the service and moving into VAC. Where are the challenges?

We talked about data collection in the last study. It was about having the appropriate information and how there's no measurement if that data isn't gathered.

I'm just wondering if you see any issues between those two now that you've gone through and are currently going through that process.

[Sgt Nina Charlene Usherwood]

One thing that I experience now that I've experienced dealing with VAC some more is kind of the same thing that Vivienne talked about. VAC is focused on and set up to treat people who have bullet wounds and limb amputations. Although for the last few years they've been accepting mental trauma, they still do not see how the mental trauma can have a lifelong impact on a person's health. I think that's the biggest problem: VAC has a bias against accepting that mental trauma can cause a physical injury.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you for that.

I think that's an important point, and you've talked about this. It's how mental health impacts the physical health.

We've heard again and again that when you're in the CAF, if it's not recorded properly, then when you get to VAC, it's hard to claim the injury. Is that transfer of information part of the challenge? Is it not clear enough from CAF to VAC?

[Sgt Nina Charlene Usherwood]

I would say for sure in the past, but right now.... When I was still in the forces, as I said in my opening statement, it was documented by a Canadian Forces health services psychologist that I had suffered a serious physical impact from the mental trauma that I dealt with.

VAC does not want to accept that it's linked, that there's a linkage with physical trauma, and I see that more as an issue from VAC's side. My sense, as I was leaving the military, was that the military is more accepting of mental trauma than VAC.

My diabetes was a factor in my medical release—that's for sure—but at the time, I was in no way penalized by the forces due to the fact that I was diabetic, other than the fact that I was released. I don't dispute that it was a factor, because I could no longer meet universality of service, and I do believe in that principle: Every person in the military has to be able to serve as required by the Canadian government. I do accept that.

It did lead to my medical release, at least partially. There were other physical problems that related to my career that were unrelated to mental trauma, but that was part of my reason for being released.

I think it's really on VAC's part to be more aware of the linkage. When I put my claim in to VAC, they basically denied it. They said there was no linkage.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you very much, Ms. Usherwood.

That's the end of the first round of questions, so now we're going to start a new one.

I'd like to invite MP Terry Dowdall for five minutes, please.

[Terry Dowdall, Conservative, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank both of our guests today for their testimony, and certainly as pioneers to hopefully have some changes happen since the time that they've served, so I thank you for your service.

My question now is to Ms. Stewart. I know that at the time you said there was no exit interview. I hope that's not common now, because I think it's quite important to do that so that we can see what we can improve on.

Congratulations on your retirement. You just said that you retired, and it's fantastic that you went from one career to another successful career. There's certainly lots of hard work there.

A couple of words popped up in your testimony that sort of caught my eye. You talked about the gatekeepers. I'm just wondering if you could perhaps elaborate a little bit more about that comment.

[Vivienne Stewart]

Yes, thank you.

I'd say it's based on my understanding of how VAC works, and as I've said before, I don't have any direct personal contact with VAC. However, it does seem to me, based on what our council has heard from the women veterans who were involved in the Merlo Davidson settlement and who also had occasion to seek assistance from VAC and use services and obtain benefits, that the frontline workers often create more of a barrier than provide assistance.

They're supposed to be there to open the door to these people—to say, “Yes, we have programs and services to help you,” instead of looking at an application and denying it right off the bat because it doesn't—now I'm supposing something here—meet everything on somebody's checklist.

It does seem to me that the front line of VAC—especially for people who have suffered some trauma, especially in light of PTSD, which seems to be more common now than it ever has been—is now there to screen out rather than to assist in providing those resources to veterans that the Pension Act says VAC was created to provide.

Perhaps Nina can speak to this as well.

[Terry Dowdall, Conservative, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

Thank you.

I don't know, Ms. Usherwood, if you want to make a couple of comments on that as well.

[Sgt Nina Charlene Usherwood]

Yes.

I know someone, an RCMP member, who after 33 years just released officially as of yesterday, and I can compare their release to mine. Because I was being medically released, I had a nurse from the local military hospital take me, step by step, through how to apply and through everything related to VAC. Once I got to VAC, it was like, “Well, this wasn't mentioned,” because neither one of us thought of it, for whatever reason. Then I had to go through the same hoops.

An intake interview would be extremely useful, but my understanding is that for leaving the RCMP—as I said, I have a friend who has just released officially as of yesterday, according to her Facebook page—there's nothing. That's the difference from the release program in the military with, for example, the Departure with Dignity program and other events. It's a night-and-day difference, from what I hear from members of the RCMP.

[Terry Dowdall, Conservative, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

As a recommendation on this study we're doing, do you think it might be helpful for Veterans Affairs Canada to perhaps hire more women veterans and those from other communities? Maybe that would help in understanding some of the issues and the calls that are coming in.

[Sgt Nina Charlene Usherwood]

I don't have any idea of their employment numbers. I'm not sure that....

Hiring more veterans would, I think, definitely help. As I said earlier, you can't understand how someone's life is if you don't know their life, if you haven't experienced it, so I think that would certainly be useful. However, my recommendation would be to have an intake interview, which I never had.

[Terry Dowdall, Conservative, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

The same question will go to Ms. Stewart.

[Vivienne Stewart]

I think that people who are, as Nina said, either doing an intake interview or are the first line that the claimants meet should have some awareness of the experiences and lives of women veterans in both the RCMP and CAF, obviously. Perhaps it could be a subject matter expert, or there could be additional training, just something to raise the level of—I don't want to say “professionalism”, but I will say it—professionalism at that first stage.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you very much.

Now let's invite the Honourable Carolyn Bennett for five minutes, please.