Veterans Affairs Committee on Nov. 30th, 2023

[Bryan May, Liberal, Cambridge, ON]

Do you work with them at all? Have you had any involvement with them in trying to impel them toward providing a better environment for people?

[Sgt Nina Charlene Usherwood]

The purpose of the DAG is to act both as an advisory to the leadership and also—and yes, I did—to point out issues that the DAG members might see.

I don't feel that the leadership actually uses the DAG as much as they should. Mainly, frankly, in my experience, the DAGs are used to acknowledge the international day against racism or the international day of women, etc. It's more to highlight events than to actually make any change in the system.

I know that in some bases they're more active and there's more involvement, but from what I've seen, it's mostly initiated by the DAGs, and the DAGs are an advisory group. They are not an action group.

[Bryan May, Liberal, Cambridge, ON]

That's a very solid point. I guess my question to you, then, would be about what recommendations, if any, you would give to us to maybe improve upon them.

Specifically, the reason I bring it up here at the veterans affairs committee is that a number of folks I spoke with hoped that the DAGs could evolve to support people in a better way in the transition into civilian life. I'm wondering if you've given any thought to that and could maybe provide some recommendations to this committee in that regard.

[Sgt Nina Charlene Usherwood]

Well, the simplest answer is that the Employment Equity Act has not been amended since 1995, the last time I looked at it, so maybe there needs to be an amendment to that. Frankly, it's almost like the government said, “Okay, we'll have employment equity. Okay, we passed the act and we've checked our box. We're done.”

[Bryan May, Liberal, Cambridge, ON]

Excellent. Thank you.

In your opinion, how could VAC do a better job of collecting data about gender specifically, and would it help to better serve women and veterans from the 2SLGBTQIA+ communities?

[Sgt Nina Charlene Usherwood]

I'm not an expert on privacy, so I don't feel that I could actually give any suggestions, because privacy comes into it and the whole Privacy Act is not even an act I've read. I can't speak to that.

[Bryan May, Liberal, Cambridge, ON]

That's fair enough.

Ms. Stewart, as you probably know, Veterans Affairs continues to integrate the work of gender-based analysis plus into the work of the department to promote inclusion for all veterans. How can we strengthen the treatment, transition supports, recognition and care of women veterans from all backgrounds?

[Vivienne Stewart]

Thank you for the question. It's a far-reaching one, I have to say.

I think we've touched on a few of the points here today: basically, transitioning into a more welcoming environment if you're actually looking at what VAC is offering and, again, programs, services, better training and better awareness of women veterans' experiences and their particular issues relating to their service and the kinds of things that are different from what their their male colleagues experience.

I'm not sure I've answered your question. If you have a follow-up, I'm happy to deal with it.

[Bryan May, Liberal, Cambridge, ON]

I wish I had the time to do that, but I'm getting the look from the chair.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you so much.

We have two last interventions, but they are two quick ones of about two minutes.

Mr. Desilets will ask the penultimate question.

You have the floor, Mr. Desilets.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Ms. Stewart, you said in one of your previous interventions that many recommendations came out of this committee, but few were implemented.

To reassure you, I can tell you that we're pretty much all on the same page.

That said, we must remain hopeful. I'm confident that you'll respond to Mr. Casey's earlier request, and please know that we'd all welcome a written version of the recommendation you'd like to see in our report in connection with the Merlo Davidson class action settlement.

If any other recommendation should come to mind, please be assured that it would be most welcome.

I'm going to ask you a question that may seem a little naive. I'm not a lawyer like Mr. Casey and yourself.

Could someone who experienced situations related to this action five years ago be able to benefit from it?

[Vivienne Stewart]

Could you repeat the question?

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Yes, no problem.

Could the results of the current class action be used as case law, of sorts, after the death or suicide of a veteran who had experienced assault or similar problems, if his family wanted to take up the case?

Could this be seen or done retroactively?

[Vivienne Stewart]

My understanding is no. The class action has been closed, so for anybody to bring something new forward, they would probably have to either start their own lawsuit or start a new class action.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Desilets.

To close those rounds of questions, Ms. Rachel Blaney, you have two and a half minutes, please.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you. I will return to Ms. Usherwood.

There was some discussion earlier about case managers and some of the work they need to do or training they may require.

In terms of service delivery—and I am going to be specific to the trans community at VAC—what kinds of skills do you think would open up their process to be a little bit more inclusive?

You spoke a lot about needing supports or needing VAC staff to understand mental health concerns. I am just wondering if you could talk specifically about what would be helpful in order for somebody to come forward and actually feel heard and to see action happen on their file. What kind of training would be supportive for those case workers on the other side?

[Sgt Nina Charlene Usherwood]

I'm not exactly sure what kind of training I could recommend.

One of the biggest problems is communication. I just find that communication is very slow, and frequently, for me—and I'm pretty sure I've heard this from other people—it's waiting to hear from VAC acknowledging that they've even received your message in the first place.

It's slower than it was before. That's for sure. I think it is definitely slower. I send a message, and it doesn't even get forwarded to anybody for five days.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Okay, that's very helpful.

Ms. Stewart, I will just close very quickly with you.

We know that the Merlo Davidson class action resulted in money paid by the government to those who received such terrible harm. Does this provide enough incentive for the RCMP to actually change?

[Vivienne Stewart]

One might have thought so, but, sadly, I am not sure about that. I am not convinced, but I am keeping an open mind that they will do what they say they are going to do now.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you. We're going to stop right here.

On behalf of all members of the committee, I'd like to thank our witnesses.

Today we've had, as an individual, Ms. Nina Charlene Usherwood; and also Ms. Vivienne Stewart from the RCMP Veteran Women's Council. Thank you very much for your participation.

Do not hesitate to send more information to the clerk.

Next week we're going to continue our study, but for now, I'd like to know if members would like to adjourn the meeting.

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

The meeting is adjourned.