Veterans Affairs Committee on Dec. 7th, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Yes. For those minutes, I have to ask for unanimous consent.

Is 10 minutes okay?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Perfect. Thank you so much.

We're going to have three interventions: Mr. Miao for five minutes, then Mr. Desilets and Ms. Blaney.

Mr. Miao, please go ahead.

[Wilson Miao, Liberal, Richmond Centre, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all the officials for being here today.

In your opening remarks, you mentioned some of the great programs that support our veterans. When a veteran is released, how does each department inform him or her of the programs and services that are available?

Can Ms. Rizzo Michelin share that with us?

[Linda Rizzo Michelin]

For us, the SMSRC is our outreach program. It's through our social media. If the individual was already seeking services or part of our clientele group, that would continue, whether they're inactive CAF or continuing on with it.

We do some distribution through VAC as well, for some of the programs we offer. They will use their social media at times to reflect what our programs and services are.

[Wilson Miao, Liberal, Richmond Centre, BC]

It's over to you online, Ms. Meunier.

[Amy Meunier]

Thank you.

We are working with the Canadian Armed Forces—as I'm sure this committee heard before—to improve the transition process. A VAC case manager at the appropriate time of release works with a CAF case manager to ensure individuals are aware of the benefits and services they're currently receiving from the Canadian Armed Forces. It's to ensure those continue or that similar programs continue after release.

We have veteran service agents who conduct transition interviews to make sure we understand the issues, challenges or opportunities of releasing individuals. They make sure they're aware of the benefits, services and programs available to them through Veterans Affairs Canada. It offers us an opportunity to better understand their needs, such as treatment they're receiving from the Canadian Armed Forces. We can work to make sure that, upon release, those benefits and services—or treatment benefits—are in place.

I'm not sure if my colleagues want to offer additional information.

[Dr. Cyd Courchesne]

I would say that it's not just in terms of medically released members. Every releasing service member will get a screening that evaluates their preparedness for transition and makes sure everything is in place before they release. It's also about encouraging them to open a My VAC account through which they can receive a lot of information.

Thank you.

[Wilson Miao, Liberal, Richmond Centre, BC]

Thank you for sharing that with us.

I'd like to continue my questioning with Ms. Meunier.

What is VAC doing to include women in commemoration? In the past, we've heard from women veterans that, whenever they wear a medal, they're not being recognized. The assumption is that their spouse served in the military in order to get that medal.

Can you share with us what VAC is doing on the commemoration piece?

[Amy Meunier]

Unfortunately, we've heard those stories as well. As part of commemoration recognition at all of our events, initiatives and activities, women veterans are well represented.

As I mentioned in my opening remarks, we have built more learning modules and updated previous learning modules that are pushed out to educators across the country. This year alone, five million learning modules were shared with educators across the country. The reason I flag that is that it tells the story that it is important for youth to understand, and for broader communities to understand, the impactful service of Canadian women veterans.

We're looking to capture their stories. On our website right now, there are many stories and experiences of women veterans. We are looking to increase that number—19 in the last several weeks—and we want to continue to do that. Part of it is to ensure women veterans see themselves as veterans. We've heard from a number who don't see themselves in that same space.

The more we promote the service, the efforts and the courage that women veterans have demonstrated and amplified, the more it will resonate with communities. That's part of our mission within the commemoration division. It's part of our emphasis on modern veterans, with a significant emphasis on women.

[Wilson Miao, Liberal, Richmond Centre, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Miao.

It's now Mr. Desilets' turn to take the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I have two quick observations to make, and they are very personal.

First, I hear that there are connections, communications between Veterans Affairs Canada and the Canadian Armed Forces. However, that isn't the testimony we're hearing here. There's a bit of a disconnect when you leave the military and become a veteran. I need to be convinced that the situation will change in the future.

Second, I'll come back to the figures on the number of sexual assault cases. I asked some questions earlier without getting an answer, and I understand that I can't get any answers on that.

Statistics Canada shows that there's been a significant increase in the number of sexual assaults, and I think it would be extremely important for all stakeholders to be able to look at this issue to see whether that's really the case. I don't doubt the validity of the figures, but this progression could simply reflect the fact that more women agree to say that they have been victims of sexual assault, without increasing the number of sexual assaults.

We always have to be careful with the words we use. It would involve fine‑tuning and working on that aspect. You have to understand that this has a direct impact on you, because if there is indeed an increase in the number of sexual assaults, you will have to find more organizations and provide more services.

Having said that, Dr. Courchesne, I have a question for you. A doctoral researcher testified here a few weeks ago. She told us that the women in the army had such inadequate equipment that, in some cases, they had to go through surgery in order to continue to serve in the army. She gave us the example of women who had had their breasts removed because their equipment was not adapted and they repeatedly injured their breasts. Have you ever heard of this kind of situation?

[Dr. Cyd Courchesne]

Thank you for the question.

As a physician who worked in the armed forces for 30 years, I haven't seen that kind of situation, but that doesn't mean that the situation doesn't exist. Some women asked for breast reductions, but it wasn't because of poorly adapted equipment. It was for other reasons, such as back pain, and so on. That said, it's quite possible that these women didn't want to admit that they were injured because of the equipment.

I have no doubt that some women have taken that route. This type of situation isn't unique to the Canadian Armed Forces. I think this is a reality that exists in all the armed forces. We would probably see similar situations if we looked at our allies, because it's true that the equipment was designed mainly for men and is based on male sizes, not necessarily female sizes.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you, Dr. Courchesne. Your French is good, too.

[Dr. Cyd Courchesne]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Desilets.

To close this round of questions, I invite Ms. Blaney.

You have two and a half minutes, please.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you.

If I can come back to Ms. Michelin, I wanted to ask about the DND and CAF sexual misconduct class action lawsuit.

We know that during the final settlement, it was agreed in the Federal Court.... One of its sections was tasking DND, and in particular SMSRC, to run a restorative engagement program. In October, we did have a witness, Dr. Aiken, who spoke to the committee about her concerns about how slow the start-up of the program was.

I'm just wondering if you have any updates on this, and if there are other restorative engagement processes awaiting veterans.

[Linda Rizzo Michelin]

Thank you for the question.

In terms of the restorative engagement program, I can tell you that there are going to be some enhancements happening within the next few months.

What was really important in this particular program was to make sure that the restorative process that was put in place was going to meet the needs and be done in a way that was not going to cause retraumatization or any of those kinds of things for the individuals who are part of the class action suit and have come forward there.

The number of individuals who have come forward is significantly high. However, I will say that the program has been developed, and we've been seeing already some very positive results, both from the class members who have been involved and from the defence side that has participated in it.

We're looking forward to the enhancements over the next few months. We should see an increase and a quicker involvement of class members and the defence team in terms of moving forward.

I will say as well that, although class members indicated that they were interested in the restorative engagement program, sometimes it takes time for the class member to be ready for whatever the engagement is going to be. Initial thoughts were that it would be significantly quicker for the class members, who were already initiated into the program, but that has taken more time, not because of the delays in the program but because the individuals just needed more support before an engagement could take place.

Again, there is a lot of good progress, and we're looking forward to the enhancements over the next few months.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

How is that reported back so that people can see that? One of my concerns is that there's a sense of distrust, so seeing success, I think, would help many women come forward.

[Linda Rizzo Michelin]

Absolutely.

One thing we do from our organization is have direct contact with the class members through social media and information sessions. We've had a couple over the last year just to let people know where we're at with the program and what they can expect.

I will say that all individuals who have put themselves forward to be part of the restorative engagement program will have been contacted by the end of December 2023. In the next few weeks there will be at least an initial contact, just to gauge their interest still in participating. Then, as I said, some enhancements will be starting in the new year, and hopefully the class members who have been waiting will be able to have access to the services quicker.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you so much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Ms. Blaney.

Ladies and gentlemen, it was a pleasure to welcome you this afternoon as part of our study on the experience of women veterans. I'd like to thank you on behalf of the committee members and myself.

From the Department of National Defence, we had with us Linda Rizzo Michelin, chief operating officer of the sexual misconduct support centre, Shoba Ranganathan, director of programs and services with the sexual misconduct support centre, and Colonel Peter Rowe, director of casualty support management.

From the Department of Veterans Affairs, we had, by videoconference, Amy Meunier, assistant deputy minister with the commemoration and public affairs branch, Pamela Harrison, senior director of engagement and events, and Dr. Cyd Courchesne, chief medical officer.

Again, thank you for your participation.

I'd also like to thank our clerk, our analyst and our technicians, as well as our interpreters, even though we can't see them.

Is it the pleasure of the committee to adjourn?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

The meeting is adjourned. Thank you.