Veterans Affairs Committee on March 25th, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Welcome to meeting number eight of the Standing Committee on Veterans Affairs.

Pursuant to the order adopted on Tuesday, February 8, 2022, the committee is meeting with retired Colonel Nishika Jardine, the veterans ombud, to receive an update and recommendations on the issue of wait times and backlogs faced by disabled veterans in receiving the benefits that they are entitled to and deserve.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format pursuant to the House order of November 25, 2021. Members are attending in person in the room and remotely using the Zoom application. The proceedings will be made available via the House of Commons website, and the webcast will always show the person speaking, rather than the entirety of the committee.

Today's meeting is also taking place in a webinar format. Webinars are for public committee meetings and are available only to members, their staff and witnesses. Members enter immediately as active participants. All functionalities for active participants remain the same. Staff will be non-active participants and can, therefore, view the meeting only in a gallery view.

Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. If you are on the video conference, please click on the microphone icon to unmute yourself. If you are in the room, your microphone will be controlled as normal by the proceedings and verification officer. When speaking, please speak slowly and clearly. When you are not speaking, your mike should be on mute. I would remind you that all comments by members and witnesses should be addressed through the chair.

With regard to a speaking list, the committee clerk and I will do the best we can to maintain a consolidated order of speaking for all members, whether they are participating virtually or in person.

I now wish to welcome our witnesses, retired Colonel Nishika Jardine, veterans ombud, and Duane Schippers, acting deputy veterans ombud.

Ms. Jardine, you will have the next five minutes for your opening statement, after which, the committee members will ask you questions.

Please go ahead.

[Colonel, Retired) Nishika Jardine (Veterans Ombud, Office of the Veterans Ombudsman]

Good afternoon, Mr. Chair and members of the committee.

Thank you for inviting me to speak to you about the wait times faced by veterans looking to obtain a decision on their disability benefit claim.

Today, I am pleased to be joined by Duane Schippers, deputy veterans ombud. He is no longer acting.

The most important task of any ombudsman is to respond to individual complaints. The primary role of the Office of the Veterans Ombudsman is to receive and attempt to resolve complaints for VAC clients when they are having difficulty with the department.

The number one complaint we receive from veterans is about their frustration with lengthy wait times for disability benefit decisions. In 2016, these represented 16% of all the complaints we received. Today, it is 21%. We are all well aware that this is a difficult situation that needs to be resolved in order for Canada to better meet its commitment to veterans.

You have received many statistics about this issue, and it is easy to get lost in discussing the number of weeks and the number of people who wait longer than others. Today, I want to draw your attention away from the numbers and onto real people—the veterans themselves. I would like to talk about the effects of these wait times.

VAC reports its backlog and wait times as an average of all claims that are being considered. These include first applications, reassessments and expedited claims by “red zone” veterans who are over the age of 80 or who have a life-threatening health concern.

In our view, the situation of veterans who have submitted an initial application should be considered in greater detail.

I would suggest that it is more important to appreciate what this wait time for decisions actually means to veterans.

Some veterans need a positive decision to receive health care benefits for service-related conditions, including prescription drugs, dental care, supports such as home adaptations, and prosthetics.

While some veterans may be eligible to receive treatment under the rehabilitation program while they wait, VAC does not clearly communicate this. Not all veterans will be eligible, because the claimed condition must be causing a barrier to re-establishment, which isn't always the case. Without proactive triage and clearer communications, lengthy wait times can prevent access to necessary treatments for service-related conditions.

VAC is well aware of the wait time impact on veterans who have submitted first applications. We have seen changes that mitigate this impact since we first published our report on this subject in 2018. Now, treatment benefit reimbursement is provided going back to the date of application. This is a positive step, but veterans can still experience financial hardship by having to pay up front for health care treatment and services while awaiting that decision, and then waiting for reimbursement. Worse, they may forgo treatment altogether. If you are one of the thousands still waiting, you may also be waiting for treatment.

The most recent change to the veterans health care regulations will, as of April 1, afford veterans an important bridge for up to two years of VAC-funded mental health treatment while they are waiting for the decision on their mental health disability claims. I would ask the government to go further: Provide the same bridge benefit for all disability claims, and in so doing close this immense gap in veteran health care that is triggered by release from the CAF.

Until then, I will continue to focus on the impact of wait times for decisions on first disability claim applications. The gateway to the disability benefits program is primarily through an approved disability claim.

This is an unquestionably complex issue. My goal today is simply to focus your attention on the veterans hidden behind these statistics.

No veteran should have to wait for these decisions that can have such an important impact on their health and well-being. That women and francophones still wait longer than their anglophone and male counterparts will remain a frustration until all veterans, regardless of gender or language, have equitable access to timely decisions by VAC.

In short, I invite you to look beyond the numbers and instead focus on the impacts these delays are having on our veterans.

I would urge you to ask VAC how many veterans are waiting for a decision on their initial application, now that you know that these are the numbers that have the most impact on our veterans' health and well-being.

Your interest in this issue is very important to me as the veterans ombud and to my office.

Once again, thank you for inviting me to share my perspective.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Ms. Jardine.

I apologize to Duane Schippers. As you say, he's no longer interim. I'd like to congratulate him on his new position.

Now we'll go to questions.

I would invite the first vice-chair of the committee, Mr. Frank Caputo, to go ahead for six minutes, please.

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Before I get into my questions, I have a notice of motion that I wish to give at this time. I advised the clerk that I would be doing so. I believe he will have a copy of this motion, of which I'm giving notice in both official languages.

I'll just read it into the record in English, as follows:

That given that Juno Beach is one of the most sacred places in Canadian military history, the Standing Committee on Veterans Affairs objects to plans to develop the area immediately adjacent to the Juno Beach Centre, expresses its support for the Save Juno Beach campaign in Canada, calls on the government to provide financial support for the Juno Beach Centre Association in order to protect the integrity of Canada's primary site of Second World War commemoration overseas, and reports this motion to the House.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

You're very welcome.

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

With that, I also wish to congratulate the deputy ombud and to thank both of our witnesses for their service. It's a pleasure to have them here.

Retired Colonel Jardine, our ombud, thank you for the direct manner in which you wrote. I appreciate that you said exactly what was on your mind. Based on your recommendations—I believe there are 93, as of late—when it comes to wait times, are there two or three that stand out as being the most important to you, from what you've seen?

[Col (Ret'd) Nishika Jardine]

You're asking me which of the recommendations we've made with respect to wait times—or the top two or three—are most important to us.

The most important to me, with respect to what I've just said, is to understand who the person is who is applying for this disability benefit. In other words, perform some kind of triage as the disability claim comes in. Does this person have a family doctor? Is this person in financial difficulty? Do they have access to the public service health care plan? Are there conditions that are a barrier to their being able not only to reintegrate into civilian life, but to progress in their lives? Are they still serving?

I believe, and our office believes, that this aspect of triage of these first applications right at the outset is the most important thing to do.

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Along those lines, Ombud, is there a mandatory requirement that a person who falls within the department's jurisdiction has to have a triage meeting, say, within 14 days, or 30 days?

Is there anything, to your knowledge, of that type of regulation?

[Col (Ret'd) Nishika Jardine]

I am not aware of anything along those lines.

The department could answer that question better than I can.

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

If it doesn't exist, would such a requirement assist, in your view, given what you told us as a witness in your last answer?

[Col (Ret'd) Nishika Jardine]

I believe anything that the department can do to better understand the nature of the person making the claim and their circumstances will go a long way to providing the support that our veterans need.

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Obviously, there is an issue with overlap.

What I'm envisioning is something along the lines of.... Within 15 days of an application—or something along those lines, maybe three weeks—there's a mandatory interview done by somebody who does intake, in order to assess the applicant's mental health. This would be their mental health in terms of whether they need something right away, their financial viability, who they are as a human being and whether they have any special needs based on their personal circumstances. We heard a lot about that in our last meeting.

What would you think about that?

[Col (Ret'd) Nishika Jardine]

Right off the top of my head, it would be anything that helps the department understand the person behind the claim. I would leave it to the department to determine the best processes for doing that.

Again, my number one concern in this whole issue of disability claims is the impact that the waiting [Technical difficulty—Editor] do not have easy access or the wherewithal to get the treatment they need.

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Have we gotten into a period where we are treating too many veterans as statistics and numbers, rather than seeing people as individuals who require individualized care?

[Col (Ret'd) Nishika Jardine]

I will agree that it is the thing that disturbs me the most, and it is the reason for my comments today. We can get lost in the statistics, the numbers—how many weeks, how long—and the backlog. It is why today I chose to make my comments to you about the impact of these disability claim decisions on the people who are making the claims.

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

I thank you for raising the human nature of the fact that these are all veterans who have unique circumstances, who come to us from different backgrounds and who have different issues.

I believe my time is up.

Thank you very much for highlighting that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you so much, Mr. Caputo.

Thank you, Madame Jardine.

Let's now go to MP Darrell Samson for six minutes, please.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for your presentation and thank you both for the work you do. It's much appreciated. I know you're the voice of veterans who are reaching up to ask questions or to complain. It's extremely important that we keep those lines of communication very strong.

In your presentation and in some of the follow-up questions from Mr. Caputo—and I noticed in reading and listening to you—you're taking that personal approach. That's quite interesting. It's a different approach maybe and one that we need to consider for sure.

I would just like your opinion quickly, because I'm always scared that for a first-time applicant, for example, this is going to cause a longer wait time than what we have now. If, for example, we take Mr. Caputo's proposal and reach out every 14 days or within 14, 15, 20, or 30 days—and you mentioned in your presentation as well that we should try to reach out to individuals to know more about them—I'm a little scared that could increase the process and then increase the wait time.

Maybe there's a better way of doing that. Maybe the way is through their My VAC account, where they can indicate with just a quick note that says “I am a first-time applicant”, or “this is my impact”, or “I am seriously ill”. I don't know. I just want your opinion quickly on that piece.

[Col (Ret'd) Nishika Jardine]

Absolutely, it's a very good question on the face of it. We have not done a study of this, and I need to preface my remarks that way and to make it really clear that it is not my role to speak about the processes that the department may or may not choose to implement after its study. However, on the face of it, I think having a couple of extra questions in the application form to perhaps clarify those questions and the process around that would also be concerning to me. It seems to me that the number of additional questions one could include in the application to help [Technical difficulty—Editor] should not make it that much more difficult, but again I want to say that it's important.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

I thank you for that. I just wanted to clarify that. We have to be careful of that. There are strategies to do it, and I think we're zeroing in on the need for it, so I thank you for that.

In your report card that was submitted in 2021, you gave a progress summary of the recommendations. It's about 70%, I noticed, across the board, if we take an average. That's not as good as 90%, one understands, but it's better than 50%. We're increasing that every year and then it's hard to catch up anyway. I guess 70% looks like the average. Of the recommendations that VAC in the last few years has implemented, which one was the most positive, in your opinion? What were the top two, from which you feel we've seen some really good progress that was extremely important?

[Col (Ret'd) Nishika Jardine]

The most important ones to me—and remember that I've been in the job for just over a year—are the two reports that we published during my tenure on mental health support for families and peer support for survivors of military sexual trauma. I know there has been progress on the peer support for military sexual trauma. My office and I are very encouraged by the work that is being done on this extremely important support, which needs to be provided [Technical difficulty—Editor] to veterans who have undergone or have survived, I should say, a military sexual trauma. That, in my view, personally speaking, has been the most important thing so far during my tenure.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

I thank you for that.

Do I have more time? If I do, my question will be which one VAC has not started up or implemented yet that you would strongly recommend be the number one or two?

[Col (Ret'd) Nishika Jardine]

I would again go back to the first report that we published during my tenure, and that is on the mental health supports for families. As I said when I first appeared before you a year ago, when a member serves, their family also serves. Support for anyone who has a service-related mental health condition goes to supporting that family and to supporting that member. To me, drawing a line between the member and their family is creating an artificial separation that, I think, is harmful. That's where I would very much like to see progress.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

I appreciate that opinion. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you so much, Mr. Samson.

Next we have Mr. Desilets, the second vice-chair of the committee.

Mr. Desilets, you have six minutes. Go ahead.