Veterans Affairs Committee on Feb. 12th, 2024

[Cmdre Daniel Bouchard]

Thank you very much for the question.

We also have, inside the Canadian Armed Forces directorate, something that's called the director general military personnel research and analysis, which assists us quite a bit with all the research. They work very closely with the surgeon general's team and were invited to work closely with Veterans Affairs Canada and us to facilitate our research.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you.

Ms. Hicks.

[Jane Hicks]

If you don't mind, I was going to say that we are very connected to the Five Eyes countries. There's a research body that works with the Five Eyes countries, and they share research and whatnot. They are connected in the international community with respect to veterans and transition.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

That's great.

I have one other question, and maybe I'll do this with you, Commander Bouchard.

In terms of how you're communicating this with veterans, I—

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Excuse me, Ms. McPherson.

It's two minutes and a half.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Oh, it goes fast.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

I'm so sorry, but you will have a chance to come back in the third round.

I'm now pleased to invite Mr. Fraser Tolmie to take the floor for five minutes, please.

[Fraser Tolmie, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

Thank you, Chair.

I would like to thank the witnesses for coming today, for the service of those who have served and for your time.

Chair, through you, I'm going to ask this question because it's one that's swirling around in my mind after hearing a bit of the testimony. It's piggybacking on my colleague, Mr. Dowdall's, comments from earlier. The question I have right now is this: What is it going to take to create a healthy organization—meaning Veterans Affairs—to help veterans who are in need?

I'm asking myself this question because I want to know what it's going to take to shorten the span of time from recommendations that come from here to implementation. I ask that question because earlier on Mr. Dowdall brought forward a report from 2018: “A Seamless Transition to Civilian Life For All Veterans: It's Time For Action”. Six years ago, it was time for action for vets who were homeless.

Mr. Harris, earlier on, you shared with us that there is going to be an announcement—a launch—in the spring. This is six years later. We're going to be having a launch for something that was identified six years ago. Part of this launch, if I understand, is that money is now going to be allocated from Veterans Affairs to the Infrastructure Bank, which is another layer of bureaucracy and a holdup for people who are homeless and in need.

I want to know what it's going to take for us, when we complete our reports here, to be able to shorten the span to help people who are in need.

[Steven Harris]

Thanks very much.

I'd offer a couple of things, since the question spans a couple of issues.

First and foremost, I want to be clear that the money is not coming from Veterans Affairs to go to Infrastructure Canada. The money was awarded in the budget to Infrastructure Canada—which is leading on the national housing strategy—for it to use its expertise on homelessness. It's supported by Veterans Affairs, which is providing them with information and supporting them in terms of delivery on that.

The money in the budget was awarded directly to Infrastructure Canada, and we are assisting in the delivery of that. That's coming. The announcement was already made. It's actually in the set-up of operations. Infrastructure Canada will be able to provide proper timelines around that as that goes forward.

In the meantime, with respect to housing and homelessness for veterans, there have been a number of improvements and advances. I talked earlier about the veterans emergency fund, which was launched in 2018. This is a fund that provides immediate assistance with a very short time frame—we talked about time frames—to veterans who may need it immediately to right their housing situation. It is only short term. However, I know we've helped more than 300 veterans from a housing and homelessness point of view using just the veterans emergency fund alone. That's just one new thing.

The second part is certainly, as you said, the issue of how quickly we can make decisions and get assistance to veterans. In terms of supports and services from decision-making, reducing the backlog is actually a significant assistance for veterans in terms of getting decisions and getting access to programs, services and money that will help them on that front. That's a second piece.

The income replacement benefit for those veterans going through a rehabilitation program is another way. Ninety per cent of their pre-release income is another way of helping people and preventing them from experiencing any kind of homelessness.

With respect to the recommendations of the committee, be they previous studies or not, we do take very seriously the implementation of those recommendations. They don't always come with specific targets, either the recommendations or the support that's issued, in terms of a response to the committee. However, I can tell you that we take those recommendations very seriously, and we do try to implement them to make improvements and offer improved services to veterans and their families.

[Fraser Tolmie, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Harris.

For me, it's my confidence that this committee's being heard and we're seeing the implementation of recommendations that we've worked hard for to help people who are in need. That is where I'm coming from. We need a healthy organization to help people who are in need and who are facing challenges, and the many who are either physically impaired or need housing. That is where my line of questioning has been coming from.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Give a quick answer, please, Mr. Harris.

[Steven Harris]

I would completely agree. What we want to do is to make sure that the Veterans Affairs organization is in a position of opportunity and strength to help veterans. There have been a number of programs and services added. There's been increased staffing for us to be able to ensure that we can deliver services to veterans in need. We have more veterans coming to us than in previous times, and we've wanted to make sure we're in a position to respond to them from a case management perspective, when they're submitting a disability application or by having a range of programs to support them in their transition as well.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you very much.

Now I'd like to invite MP Lisa Hepfner for five minutes, please.

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to all of our guests for being here to answer these questions today.

Also, to the veterans in the room, we appreciate that you're here to listen to these deliberations today.

I am also new to this committee, so I maybe don't have the background knowledge that some of the other committee members have. Previously, I was a journalist. What I've been thinking about today is one particular series I did on a veteran from Hamilton Mountain who talked about the PTSD he was suffering from.

I think, for him, it took a long time to even realize he was suffering from anything. He was having difficulty connecting with his wife, difficulty starting a family, difficulty getting a job, difficulty even driving. He talked about the hypervigilance that followed him around since he had served in a combat scenario and how he was unable to even drive without being overcome with intense anger. He had colleagues of his who had committed suicide since they had left the service. I don't think he was getting the support from Veterans Affairs that he had expected.

That was at least five years ago, probably longer. What would he expect today from Veterans Affairs that's different?

[Steven Harris]

I may just start, and then I'll ask my colleagues to chime in as well.

First and foremost, we're talking about transition, the actual process of going from the Canadian Armed Forces to perhaps Veterans Affairs, but really, to a post-military life, releasing from the military.

While we have a lot of people who release on an annual basis who come directly to Veterans Affairs, because they have identified medical needs or they know the challenges they may face from the interventions we have, we also have a lot of veterans who come to us six months later, 12 months later or 10 years later with issues that weren't identified at the time they released, either because they didn't accept it themselves, they didn't recognize it in themselves or they weren't ready to share those kinds of things.

Transition is really a long journey. It may be something that we can immediately provide some assistance to help with. It may be something that a veteran comes back to us with years later, and that's okay too. The transition piece can take a long period of time. They can come to Veterans Affairs whenever they need to.

I'll ask both Mark and Jane, and the commodore too if he wants to weigh in, about changes that have been made and what that person may feel is different or see differently.

[Cmdre Daniel Bouchard]

As we go through the domains of well-being in the plan, identifying these issues early is critical and then providing the support. There's also the OSISS program, which is joint with Veterans Affairs Canada. This is the operational stress injury support system, which is a peer support program with those who have lived experience, which can very much facilitate the dealing and coping. It's available for serving members and veterans, but also their families.

We have other programs such as Soldier On, a program that provides activities through leisure, recreation, the creative and also through sports. It allows them to go on their journey of recovery with others who are in a similar situation.

Thank you.

[Jane Hicks]

If I may, [Technical difficulty—Editor] is that with the whole new transition process is education and awareness. There are new tools in terms of transition that the commodore mentioned being on Canada.ca., that information, so that veterans, if they run into difficulties, know where to go and how to reach us in those times of need. They can reach out.

That's part of the intent of the transition process: to educate, and for them to know, if they don't need the assistance now but they do later, where to go to reach us.

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

I don't know who would be best to answer this, but what would you say are the biggest barriers to a successful transition out of military life?

[Mark Roy]

It's really dependent on the person themselves. We all live life in a different way. Members transition in very different ways. It could depend on location. It could depend on what social assistance they have around them. Do they have family around them? Do they not? There could be multiple factors. It could be a health-related issue. It could be because they transitioned to an area that's more remote. They might be facing employment issues or access to health care. It's really dependent on the person's journey.

As Mr. Harris described earlier, transition doesn't end at the point where you release from the military. Issues may crop up years down the road. It may be that you had a perfect plan and were healthy going out of transition, and then suddenly something impacted you or something triggered you, and your PTSD appeared and you have a health issue.

People can come back to Veterans Affairs at any point. It might be that you talk to a veterans service agent at the start, but through an assessment we then find out that you have more barriers that are impacting you. At that point, we will work with you on setting goals that will make for a successful transition.

That's what we do to assist.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you very much. We have 15 minutes to go.

I'd like to invite Mrs. Cathay Wagantall to proceed for five minutes, please.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate it.

I have a question about the average with regard to the attrition over the last 10 years in light of COVID. Of course, I assume that the skewing due to COVID was due to the fact that we had a change in expectations for vaccinations for our armed forces.

I'm wondering if you're aware of how many serving members were released due to being declared unsuitable for service with their misconduct in choosing not to get the COVID vaccine. What were those numbers that made the spike?

[Cmdre Daniel Bouchard]

At this time, I do not have that information readily available with me here. I apologize.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

But there would be a number. Are you able to get that number for us?

[Cmdre Daniel Bouchard]

I will see if the number is available.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

I would appreciate that very much.