Veterans Affairs Committee on Feb. 12th, 2024

[Steven Harris]

If I might, I would only say that part of the reason the number changed and the commodore referred to a 10-year average is that some people didn't release during COVID. They weren't ready to release. Some of the services that would normally be in place to help them during that release weren't available because of restrictions and other things. As a result, some people stayed in the Canadian Armed Forces a little bit longer.

That might be part of the reason for the change in average.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Sure, so you'd be able to tell how many were due to that rationale or reasoning and how many were due to being dismissed because of the change in the COVID vaccination policies over the course of 2021—

[Steven Harris]

I think the commodore has indicated that he will try to get that information. The rest is part of a flow.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

All right. I appreciate it. Thank you very much.

Ms. Hicks, you talked about the whole transition process. Part of it is a post-release follow-up. I'm curious about whether you could tell me a bit more. We often hear from veterans that it's literally a decade before they come to grips with the fact that they need assistance. That's long past that initial transition period, which of course is really important. I'm not making light of that, for sure.

How long after you help them with that transition do you actually do that follow-up? How are you keeping in touch? It seems there's so much difficulty in keeping track of these wonderful folks. How exactly do you do that?

[Jane Hicks]

A couple of things happen. First of all, we're notified of their release. Once they go through a transition interview, then there's a screening tool to identify their risk of release. If everything seems fine, then they are lower risk. Those who are medium and higher will be scheduled for a 30-day post-release follow-up. We would follow up with the veteran to see how they're doing, how they're tracking and go from there. We also make sure they know that, if they need assistance, they can come back to us.

That's typically how we approach it. They can come back at any point in time through contact with the local area office and My VAC Account. A lot of members and veterans have access to My VAC Account and secure messaging. We get a lot of messaging that way or through our contact centre.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

These are the transition centres. I'm wondering at what point you say, “Okay, we're done with this whole process. Now you're accountable or you're in communication with VAC.”

[Jane Hicks]

It depends on the need. If an individual has moderate needs, they might be assigned a veterans service agent who might work with them for targeted assistance, certain benefits and services.

If there are higher needs and more complex needs, they would be assigned a case manager, and the case manager would work with them until such time as they don't need that service any longer. It depends on the individual circumstances. There's not a one-size-fits-all.

[Mark Roy]

To add to that and to answer your question, we also do a lot of outreach in the community. We visit our local Legion, and we talk to other partners within our areas to show that we're out there so that members know that they can come to us. I know that recently we went to the Sault Ste. Marie area with a team. We invited the community to come so that veterans could come and get their questions answered personally.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

These would be individuals who had left for how long? We talk about that decade of silence before the—

[Mark Roy]

It could be at any time.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Thank you. I appreciate that.

I have a question here. I don't know if any of you can answer it for me, but I'm going to put it forward.

In regard to the external review that took place for those who chose not to take the COVID vaccine, the chief of the defence staff has that information available to him; however, he doesn't have to follow up on the recommendations.

I have a note from spokesperson Jessica Lamirande that says, “The CAF forms its decisions on vaccination by considering the most up-to-date medical evidence and advice, the current federal posture and the need to be operationally ready in terms of both force health and ability to act in an environment where any vaccine-preventable illness is a hazard to individuals and the mission.”

Can you define for me what that means, the “current federal posture”? What is that? Does anyone know?

[Steven Harris]

I wouldn't be able to offer an answer on that, no.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Okay. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you very much.

Now, for five minutes, I invite MP Sean Casey to speak, please.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Thank you very much.

In preparing for the meeting, we get a briefing note from the Library of Parliament. As I go through that note, I see a bit of an alphabet soup of programs, services and organizations involved in the transition process. After I list them, my question is going to be this: How can you reasonably expect someone who's going through an important chapter in their life to figure all this out?

Here is the list: the service income security insurance plan; operational trauma and stress support centres; operational stress injury clinics; integrated transition plans; the second career assessment network program; integrated personnel support centres, which are now transition centres; the Veterans Affairs Canada rehabilitation program; the income replacement benefit; military family resource centres; the couples overcoming PTSD everyday program; and the education and training benefit.

I understand that all of these things, all these programs and benefits, serve a function, but it strikes me that it would be overwhelming for someone at that stage in their life to try to get their head around all of it.

How do you do that? Can you tell me what efforts are made and what your level of success is in educating people through all of those things? I realize that all of them have merit. It's just that it's a bit overwhelming.

[Cmdre Daniel Bouchard]

Thank you very much for the question. It is indeed a complex ecosystem.

First and foremost is the earlier, the better. We're doing an outreach program with the chains of command and the units to advise them to come participate at the second career assistance network—the SCAN—seminar. Most in the military will understand that, in our world of acronyms. They will attend those SCAN seminars and the intent is to have the information available for our members. They should be participating as early as possible throughout their careers.

Generally speaking, it's at least six months out—I would prefer one year—to follow the different training that's available, to come to grasp the actual process of transition and then to understand their sense of purpose and develop that plan as they proceed. The last 30 days are dedicated for the transition itself, but it really is six months prior that they should be looking after all of the various....

It's important to recognize that not everybody will require as much assistance and a lot of these programs will be couched in.... For example, if they're a medical release, then there is a list of the programs that are available to them.

The transition centres are there to support the member and the family through that process and to make sure they understand all the programs that are available. The centre, as was said before, is co-located with Veterans Affairs, and the Legion will participate also. We have many resources that can facilitate that process for our members.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Do you have anything to add on the VAC side?

Go ahead, Mr. Harris.

[Steven Harris]

I think the commander did a great job of capturing it, but to the member's point, they're all linked. These are all important elements that serve in each of these programs. They're all safety nets.

The key point and takeaway here is that the members are not asked to do this on their own. They're asked to do this in concert with representatives of the Canadian Armed Forces and Veterans Affairs in transition centres and outside of transition centres for veterans who may need to come to us from that point of view.

We have people who are essentially navigators—veterans service agents, case managers and others—who work in either the transition centres or Veterans Affairs offices and who help connect people with these various programs. Some are offered by Veterans Affairs, some by the Canadian Armed Forces and others in the community are helpful, depending on the individual need.

The point is that we don't want to leave people to have to figure it out on their own—to figure out what the alphabet soup means and what it looks like. We have trained professionals to do the assessment of what the needs might be and what programs and services are in place to help support individuals.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Casey.

Mr. Desilets, go ahead for two and a half minutes.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to start with a brief comment before asking my first question. That comment is similar to what Ms. McPherson said earlier. For lack of time, she was interrupted when she was discussing the issue of women.

We are completing a study on veterans following 23 meetings. This is the biggest study ever conducted on the subject. Many women, if not the majority of those who spoke, said they didn't feel recognized or appropriately honoured. It seems to me this kind of recognition is a truly important form of support. It also forms the basis of the relationship of trust that must exist between women and the Department of Veterans Affairs so that all those big, beautiful programs, which my colleague Mr. Casey mentioned earlier, can be put in place, function and yield the desired results.

However, we see from our report that there's unfortunately not much positive content in the comments that women made regarding their experience with the Department of Veterans Affairs and the transition they were undertaking to civilian life. That was the comment I wanted to make.

Mr. Harris, following on from what I just said, a report was released six years ago. Here we are now, six years later. It's always unfortunate that it takes this long in our system. What about this program? What's in it?

[Steven Harris]

I'd like to clarify one point, Mr. Desilets: are you referring to the transition of female veterans to civilian life?

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Yes.

[Steven Harris]

In fact, it's not exactly a program but rather a process that's based on programs and people in the Department of Veterans Affairs and the Canadian Armed Forces, which support male and female veterans during their transition.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

I see.

[Steven Harris]

The work is done in a partnership to ensure that everything's in place to support the veterans and their families.

We're still discussing this today because this is a process that can be improved, still and always. It can't come to an end. We can't say we've done everything to help veterans during their transition. There are always things that can be improved or changed based on new challenges that emerge from the stories and experiences the veterans relate to us.

The committee may conduct another transition study six years from now. By then, I hope it will be able to see the progress we've made with the process. This initiative is constantly evolving; there will always be work to do on it.