Veterans Affairs Committee on Feb. 14th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting 83 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Veterans Affairs.

We are continuing the study on the transition from military to civilian life.

Welcome back, Ms. Blaney.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format. The room is equipped with a powerful audio system. However, when you have the floor, avoid placing the earpiece close to the microphone because it may cause interference and serious problems for our interpreters.

Before welcoming the witnesses, I'd like to give the floor to Mr. Richards.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Just before we start with our witnesses today, we've obviously had five occasions now when we brought forward the motion to get to the bottom of the interference from the Prime Minister in the building of the national monument for the mission in Afghanistan. We've tried to schedule it a couple of times now, I think, to give ourselves a half an hour at the end, but there have always been ways that it's been obstructed.

I wonder if we can just try to get that finished. It's been going on for months now. Can we just schedule, for the Monday after the break week, a full two-hour meeting in public to deal with the motion? I ask for unanimous consent to schedule two hours on the Monday after the break week to deal with that motion in public.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Richards.

I would like to ask the members of the committee if there are no objections.

[Some hon. members]

No.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Sadly, the cover-up continues.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

I welcome our witnesses.

Today we have two panels of witnesses. Since we started a little late, if the committee agrees, we can end the meeting 15 minutes later than scheduled.

Go ahead.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

I have a point of order, Chair. I'm sorry to do it, but I'm a little unclear.

Did the Liberals offer to have the meeting for two hours to deal with the motion once and for all, or did they refuse unanimous consent?

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

There was no consent around that.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

The Liberals refused. Okay.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

First, online, as an individual, we have Mr. Darryl Cathcart, education consultant, by video conference. From the Pepper Pod, we have Lieutenant-Colonel Sandra Perron, founder and chief executive officer. From the Servicewomen's Salute Canada, we have Mrs. Rosemary Park, retired lieutenant-commander and founder.

You will each have five minutes for your opening statement, and after that members of the committee will ask you some questions.

I will start, by video conference, with Mr. Cathcart. Please go ahead for five minutes.

[Dr. Darryl Cathcart, Education Consultant, As an Individual]

Thank you, Mr. Chairperson.

Good afternoon, committee members.

My name is Dr. Darryl Cathcart. I founded Release Point Education, a pioneering consultancy that is dedicated to enhancing the academic journey of military-connected learners within post-secondary institutions. Therefore, it is through this lens that I view transition.

I regret not appearing in person. However, I appreciate the opportunity to offer some thoughts on transitioning Canadian Armed Forces members and veterans.

My mission at Release Point Education is not just a business endeavour but a personal commitment born from my experiences and challenges transitioning from a 26-year career with the Canadian Army to civilian life and academia.

After service, I embarked on a path that led me back to graduate school, where I uncovered a significant gap in the support available to those who served our country for decades. This revelation was not just a moment of clarity, but a call to action.

Military-connected learners—a group encompassing current serving members, veterans, their immediate families and DND civil servants—possess unique needs and face distinct challenges that traditional academic and social support structures often fail to consider, let alone address. Recognizing this, Release Point Education was founded to bridge this gap and work with Canadian colleges and universities to establish inclusive academic frameworks and act as a conduit through which military-connected learners can seamlessly transition, thrive and ultimately succeed in their postmilitary careers.

My work involves collaborating closely with colleges and universities to develop and implement strategies that are not merely generic solutions but intricately tailored to meet the specific needs of military-connected learners. Our efforts are focused on producing the best learning environments for the students by shaping the academic culture and transforming them into communities of understanding, respect and opportunity. In other words, through a military-connected lens, we look at enhancing the existing systems, procedures and processes, while fostering new initiatives.

Drawing upon empirically based research, it is clear that the value of developing tailored support systems for military-connected learners cannot be overstated. Education and training are critical enablers for successful transitions. In fact, an education journey is infinitely adaptable.

By sharing best practices, leveraging personal experiences and continuously advocating for the recognition of the unique paths of military-connected learners, Release Point Education aims to set a new standard in the post-secondary ecosystem. Our goal is to ensure that every military-connected learner who steps on a Canadian campus feels equipped, supported and valued, not just for their past contributions but for their immense potential as students and future leaders in our communities.

My intersection with the veteran space extends past post-secondary institutions. I work with Helmets to Hardhats and Respect Canada, and my volunteer efforts include being a member of the Veterans Affairs Canada service excellence and transition advisory group. I'm also a commissioner with the Soldiers' Aid Commission in Ontario.

In conclusion, the journey from the Canadian Armed Forces to academia and beyond is one that should be met with unwavering support, comprehensive resources and a deep understanding of the unique challenges faced by military-connected learners. At Release Point Education, we are committed to being at the forefront of this effort, working tirelessly to ensure that transitions are successful and truly meaningful.

Thank you for the opportunity to speak on this critical issue. I look forward to addressing any questions or observations you may have.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you very much, Dr. Cathcart.

Lieutenant Colonel Perron, you have the floor for five minutes.

[LCol Sandra Perron, Founder and Chief Executive Officer, Pepper Pod]

Mr. Chair, I'll begin by correcting my title. I'm the honorary lieutenant colonel.

Good afternoon, Mr. Chair and members of the Standing Committee on Veterans Affairs.

Thank you for inviting me here again to present to this committee. I can't think of a better way to celebrate Valentine's Day than with 12 of my favourite politicians.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[LCol (H) Sandra Perron]

I am the honorary lieutenant-colonel of the Régiment de Hull, and I am a veteran, having served in the Royal 22e Régiment.

[LCol Sandra Perron, Founder and Chief Executive Officer, Pepper Pod]

I'm also the founder and CEO of Pepper Pod, a veterans resource centre.

Over 300 women have graduated from our lifeshop program. As part of this program, we offer a healing weekend to women who are veterans or who will become veterans shortly, or to women who are military spouses or members of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, or RCMP.

First, I would like to talk briefly about what Veterans Affairs Canada is doing right, according to the women veterans who take part in our programs.

First, the education and training benefit, or ETB, program is extremely well received and appreciated.

Second, responses to claims seem to be coming a little more quickly than they used to, and they're generally treated fairly.

Third, Veterans Affairs Canada recently promoted some gender inclusion for disabilities such as female sexual dysfunction, and that was also very much appreciated.

However, according to the women who take part in our programs, here are the areas that still require a lot of attention.

First, there are medical services after the transition. A veteran who, at the end of her career, decides to return to her province of origin or to her intended place of residence in another province, must have lived there for three months before applying for a health insurance card and then must wait another two to three months before getting one.

What I hear from women veterans is that they can't get on a waiting list to see a doctor until they have their new address. I know it's different for families, but military women who leave the Canadian Armed Forces and become veterans have to face these challenges.

Without a doctor, a veteran won't be able to get a prescription for services such as rehabilitation or physiotherapy. In the meantime, she has to pay out of her own pocket to go to private care or to the emergency room, two options that are unacceptable. To address this gap, newly retired members should have access to virtual appointments with a physician through a national Veterans Affairs Canada program. The physician could prescribe those services until the provincial system comes into effect.

The second is women's health. I've mentioned this one before. Women who are leaving after approximately 25 years of service are often in the perimenopause zone. They have served in an environment where menopause and other aspects of women's health are not commonly discussed. I can't tell you how many women sit around our table at the centre and don't realize that some of their symptoms are totally normal or related to very natural changes in their body. How can women know so little about their bodies? In addition, the lack of knowledge, understanding and compassion from some doctors leads these veterans to feel like they're having a mental breakdown. This can lead to unnecessary isolation.

The third is Canada Life. It's a disaster. Enough said.

The fourth is operational stress injury social support, or OSISS. It has done an amazing job creating forums for veterans to gather, to share their stories and to heal together. Guided group meetings are happening across Canada. The challenge is that these groups of veterans often reflect the demographics of our military—mostly straight white men. This is good for them. It's a very much-needed service.

This said, I'm hearing from women veterans that they don't want to go to these meetings, which are predominantly men, and they don't want to be told to join the spousal groups. Spousal groups need their own discussions, as their stories are different. Some transgender women have also said that they feel unsafe at these meetings.

Last, we would like to express our appreciation to the Minister of Veterans Affairs, the Honourable Ginette Petitpas Taylor, as well as her senior staff, who came to the Pepper Pod for an entire day, listened to the stories of our veterans and even cooked for the upcoming Lifeshop group. She was genuine, dedicated and very caring of our women veterans.

Thank you for the important work you do. The transition from military life to civilian life is a critical and life‑changing moment in a veteran's life. Even after handing over our equipment and uniforms, the army is like a second skin for us. Please continue your efforts to improve the transition from military life to civilian life for veterans.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

That is indeed our objective.

Lieutenant Colonel Perron, thank you for your service, and happy Valentine's Day.

Now let's go to Servicewomen's Salute Canada. I invite retired lieutenant-commander Rosemary Park, founder, to begin her five minutes please.

[Rosemary Park, Lieutenant-Commander (Retired), Founder, Servicewomen’s Salute Canada]

Good afternoon, Chair and members of the committee. Thank you for the opportunity to appear.

I read the order authorizing this study to have two objectives, which are to learn more about the immediate transition period for individuals leaving military service and to learn how Veterans Affairs Canada and veterans-serving organizations, or VSOs, can reach new veterans to inform them of their options in relation to Veterans Affairs Canada.

Both objectives are laudable, but I also say they're not enough if the study's target audience for change starts with, relies on and is limited to Veterans Affairs Canada or if the role of VSOs is limited to assisting new veterans dealing with VAC. Both starting points place Veterans Affairs as the funnel and decision-maker of what is needed and funded, as well as limit the purpose of VSOs at the front end for members leaving uniformed service. Both signal status quo to me.

What if this study considers a whole-person, whole-community vantage and advantage? What if the study is to bring in the very community that veterans are choosing and the activities and services they will use? What if it is a national action plan? What if the approximately 60 veterans-supporting organizations across Canada—and I'm estimating here—and total 250 supporting organizations in communities mapped by Respect Canada, which Veterans Affairs might turn to first, are part of a much larger existing non-profit sector of approximately 170,000 incorporated organizations? What if they were engaged?

It is the sector assigned to economic, social and political roles to create a common public good for Canada, contributing $185.7 billion, or 9%, of Canada's GDP, as measured by Canada Revenue Agency in 2020—larger than construction or transportation sectors, for example. Excluding government non-profits—and there are such entities, with universities and hospitals as examples—the sector's community and business non-profit corporations employed approximately 630,000 full-time employees, 238,000 part-time employees and performed over two billion volunteer hours in 2017.

It is almost the very purpose and definition of a seamless transition for military members to continue to serve Canada. The high skills learned by and the motivation of service members as they leave CAF have ready application, but this transition off-ramp connecting veterans and the sector is not built and is untapped. I can offer four specific examples from presentations I have given over 2022 and 2023 about this topic. They are examples of military-civilian estrangement, missed opportunity and national urgency when servicewomen and servicemen are not organized to contribute their skills, their experience and the advantage they bring to local community and civil society problem-solving.

I speak about being bold and not relying on Veterans Affairs to chart a course. I say this based on the knowledge I have gained from my 20 years of uniformed service and my now 32 years of community service in the non-profit sector—also called the community sector, civil society sector, Canada's third economic sector, the non-government sector or volunteer sector, have it as you will—as a founder, chair, board member and volunteer for tens of non-profit organizations and groups; as a member of civil society media, school board, university, public health, municipal, regional, provincial and federal advisory committees; and, for the last seven years, as a veteran focused on building Servicewomen's Salute as a non-profit proxy military association and veteran-serving support.

In sum, I operate in and see the imperative of Canada's non-profit sector to the stability of Canadian democracy, civil society, economy, defence and security. If we think of this as a national action plan, I am mystified to not see this third sector strategically, intentionally and operationally brought into Veterans Affairs Canada's and the Canadian Armed Forces' thinking, veteran and citizen engagements and civil society applications.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you very much, Ms. Park.

Now let's start with the first round of questions of six minutes each. I invite Mr. Blake Richards to start.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

First, thank you to all of our presenters today for very informative presentations.

Thank you to those of you who served our country for your service, both in the military and in your service to your fellow veterans now.

There are a number of things that a veteran in transition into their civilian life obviously needs in order to be successful. Some of those things are what I'll call traditional supports: the programs and benefits that are available; doctors, like Lieutenant-Colonel Perron mentioned; and getting access to proper medical support. Having a family doctor is a huge part of that, and that's a big challenge right now—there's no question. I'm hopeful we'll get a chance to have questions on that.

I think peer support is another one of those things. A sense of purpose is something else. Often, when you're coming out of the armed forces, you're looking for that sense of purpose that replaces the one you know you felt in the armed forces. A career, of course, is important for most, if not all.

There's also, of course, a place to live. I want to start with this one and get to some of the others.

I want to ask Mr. Cathcart if he could speak to that in terms of those he works with in his program and consultancy. Have you heard of or seen veterans who are going homeless or are underhoused in the current situation?

[Dr. Darryl Cathcart]

Yes. Thanks for the question. I appreciate that.

With my intersection with Helmets to Hardhats Canada—a not-for-profit that enables reservists, veterans, immediate family members and senior cadets with the ability to enter the unionized construction sector through a series of intricate referrals—we have a partnership in the greater Toronto area with the Good Shepherd Ministries, one of the largest ministries in the GTA, through which we specifically conduct outreach for our unhoused veterans. We have a number of individuals at the Good Shepherd Ministries who help enable this function.

One is too many, but we've come across a number of unhoused veterans and veterans who are experiencing a vast array of psychosocial challenges. Ultimately, it's the goal of the Good Shepherd Ministries to ensure that their needs are taken care of initially, and then we come in and start to work on the employment piece to highlight and attack some of those areas you spoke of: purpose, employment, housing, long-term housing and the like. We work in close partnership with the Good Shepherd Ministries.

What I would say in terms of numbers is that we don't have the best data. It's very difficult to confirm service in the Canadian Armed Forces. Some unhoused individuals are reluctant to self-identify, but we certainly work closely with those who do to address their needs.

Thank you.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Thank you.

You know, thank God for folks at places like the Good Shepherd Ministries, who are picking up the slack where the government's failed our veterans in meeting those needs. Thank you for the work you're doing in partnership with them to make that possible.

Can I stick with you? On skills training and whatnot, I've often heard from veterans that they have already acquired certain skills and knowledge in their roles in the military, and then they're not able to transfer them to a civilian career, even though they have the skills and the knowledge required, because they don't actually have the paperwork or the civilian equivalent to show they picked them up in the armed forces.

Is this something you've seen? What would you suggest could be done to make sure that the real-world experience they have from the armed forces can be applied to civilian careers in a more timely and efficient manner?

[Dr. Darryl Cathcart]

That's a great question. It's something that's being approached on several fronts.

First and foremost, colleges, universities and those credential-granting institutions take this quite seriously. They are certainly looking at a multitude of ways to grant credit for prior learning. In fact, just in the fall of 2022 and the spring of 2023, we were able to secure several memorandums of understanding interprovincially and intraprovincially, here in Ontario, to enable that a bit better.

It is very complex when folks leave the Canadian Armed Forces and try to turn that into a civilian qualification. There are ways to do that.

As I said in my opening remarks, it's taken very seriously by civilian institutions. They are working their way through this problem at a national level, through regional consortiums and at an individual institution level, because academia writ large understands the value of veterans. They want to expedite their training and education pathway.

It is something that is being continuously explored and spoken about. There are several institutions that have had some great success in translating some of those skills and qualifications, whether they be the hard technical skills or the human skills that we learn while in uniform.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Thank you.

I wish I had more time. I had several more questions. Unfortunately, I know that's how it works. Even on Valentine's Day I won't be allowed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

No, I can't.

Let me introduce MP Wilson Miao for six minutes, please.