Veterans Affairs Committee on Feb. 14th, 2024

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Oh, those Quebeckers!

Thank you, Lieutenant Colonel Perron.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you very much, Mr. Desilets.

Now I invite Ms. Rachel Blaney to take the floor. You have a maximum of six minutes, please.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

First of all, I want to thank all the witnesses today for both their service and their important testimony.

I'm going to start with Honorary Lieutenant-Colonel Perron. I've spent time at the Pepper Pod, and I really enjoyed it. I really felt the energy there was supportive and created a safe space. I want to acknowledge that.

One of the things I think about when I think of transition—and you mentioned it in your testimony—is that there is a standardization of care that both VAC and the CAF really like to work in. I understand that, but of course it often means that one-size-fit-all. We know that is completely not true as it is, but it makes it a lot more awkward for different communities that may be part of the military: women, the 2SLGBT community and the BIPOC communities.

You talked about those spaces, those fora, where people can come together. How do you think, in terms of looking at transition, both the CAF and VAC can start to explore how to broaden that standardization in a way that would be more inclusive and perhaps lead to better outcomes?

[LCol Sandra Perron]

That's an excellent question.

I'm not sure I have all the answers, but I will tell you that the OSISS group does amazing things. It gets groups together. It creates a safe place for them to tell their stories because it's not always safe for everybody. The only solution to that is either to have specific groups for those who don't fit the traditional “heterosexual white male” model or to have them maybe even nationally. Bring them together on a national level if there are not enough in one community to have them.

I know that's costly. I know that can be quite complicated to do, but if you're going to give them an opportunity to share their stories, it has to be a safe space.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you for that.

I would like to follow up with retired Lieutenant-Commander Park.

I really appreciated what you said about having a national action plan and really working with the non-profit sector. As a person who worked in the non-profit sector for many years, I know that often when I would look at government policy it was very clear to me that they weren't actually speaking to the people on the ground delivering the services. It was incredibly frustrating at times.

Can you talk about what your vision is for a national action plan and how you see the non-profit sector being recognized in relation to how government services work to make some really profound changes in terms of transitioning?

[Rosemary Park]

At the federal level, the non-profit sector is not.... The funding isn't there. The funding comes, really, from the province. There is a difficulty with the federal government in this space because, principally, the funding comes from provincial ministries. That does make it different.

What we do see in the non-profit sector, which is very agile and nimble because it has very little money to work with, is the creation of the national bodies, such as the United Way, the Community Foundations of Canada and the Canadian Red Cross. There are national-level entities.

When I speak with the representatives of these national bodies, they aren't involved in veteran issues. They will say that it's Veterans Affairs' area, that the funding is from Veterans Affairs, that you apply with the Ontario Trillium Foundation, etc. It doesn't happen because the disconnect is the idea that military veterans are going to be taken care of by Veterans Affairs, but, no, that isn't the case. That's not the job of Veterans Affairs. Therefore, there is this emptiness. Who is going to be creating these community solutions when it is not the job of Veterans Affairs and when it's happening at the provincial level?

When I think of a national action plan, then, I think of bringing the national leadership that is at the United Way and at the Community Foundations of Canada—these already organized structures—and the power of philanthropy to the table to not have Veterans Affairs, as I say, as the decision-maker. This, rather, is a community solution; this is a Canadian solution that will hit at the local level.

I'll give you the example.... Am I running over, sir? I'm sorry.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

No.

[A voice]

You have 30 seconds.

[Rosemary Park]

I have 30 seconds.

Right now—and I mentioned it last April—regarding the issue around nature-triggered climate change disasters that are impacting so many more communities now, where are the veterans? They are not in the mix.

We have Team Rubicon, and it has 3,000 volunteers. We're talking about something much bigger. For that mobilizing—and Minister Sajjan is talking about a civilian corps—where are the veterans? This would be the national plan that would take these imperatives and these national urgencies.... As I said, I've been presenting on this with other examples.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you very much.

Now let's start the second round of questions.

Mrs. Wagantall, you have five minutes, please.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.

I'm just going to couch my questions in a little bit of a comment first.

We are studying the transition to civilian life. I'm in my ninth year now on this team. We've studied transition a lot, and in that time, some decisions and recommendations were made, specifically with regard to this seamless, smooth transition.

First of all, it was very strong from our veterans that they did not agree with just simply being released before a few things are in place. As a result, it was recommended that they not be released from the CAF financially until certain things happened: health care, first of all; a home; and some form of employment.

What I'm hearing from you, Ms. Perron, is that we have veterans still being released without a medical card. Of course, it should come immediately. They aren't moving from a province and having to wait for three months. This is unacceptable. The whole idea of not having an address and not having a doctor, at least an online doctor.... With this new study we're doing, we're no longer looking at what we decided before. We now have these three transition pilots that have taken place. There are now 27 transition centres, I believe, set up across Canada.

What is your perspective? Please give a yes or no. Should these things be in place before someone moves from the CAF to being a veteran? Should that person be a veteran on the street or a veteran with these things in place? It's just the basics.

[LCol Sandra Perron]

If a woman or a veteran releases, let's say, in Comox, British Columbia, and their last posting, or their last choice of posting, is in Quebec, they don't have a medical card in B.C. They have to wait three months before their—

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

We're in agreement, then. I'm just saying that's ridiculous. That's something that should be part of this transition experience from one to the other before they are out there waiting to get their medications. Okay, we're on the same page there. Thank you.

I'm concerned about the fact that support networks are really important. I agree with that, but it's not their responsibility to meet these basic needs. Would you agree with that?

[LCol Sandra Perron]

Yes, absolutely.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Okay. That is the responsibility of these transition networks.

Have either of you been involved in working with these transition centres, determining the directions that they should be going as far as meeting those needs for veterans?

[LCol Sandra Perron]

I can go first.

One of the things we have done is take the major themes that we listen to around the table, which women have told us, and feed it back to the military. Sometimes that's the transition group. They are coming to the Pepper Pod in a few weeks. Sometimes that's when all the leaders come out of the army, the navy and the air force. They were at the Pepper Pod to listen to some of these concerns.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

That's very helpful. Somebody has to help them know what it is they need to be listening to, I guess.

Ms. Park, in your previous testimony here, you talked about how the tracking of medical records needs to be handled far better than it is. We had a situation in the midst of the women's study where a very young woman faced military sexual trauma and actually ended up with a critical injury benefit, but her records were not all in one place. Things that were needed were in another location.

When we're talking about transitioning, what is your perspective on these medical records being accessible? Should they be accessible right throughout the serving of veterans?

[Rosemary Park]

I was not part of that discussion.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Okay.

[Rosemary Park]

Karen Breeck is in the room. She could talk about that.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Yes, maybe it was Karen who talked to me about this.

[Rosemary Park]

We are not joined at the hip, but I do—

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

I think we would all concur, though, ladies. Would we not? Yes. Okay. We will leave that off the record, maybe.

Mr. Cathcart, at what point are you involved in veterans' lives and in trying to determine directions for them for employment? Is it after they are already released and veterans, or is it before they leave the Canadian Armed Forces and strike out in this new world that they are a part of and are expected to succeed in?

[Dr. Darryl Cathcart]

From a college and university perspective, it's as the person leaves the military. We work with student services in order to present the best file possible: that combination of military experience and that credential or diploma or degree. It's how we marry them so that the person is well armed—

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

I'm sorry. Can I interrupt and ask why that has to wait until they have actually left the Canadian Armed Forces?