Veterans Affairs Committee on Feb. 14th, 2024

[Dr. Darryl Cathcart]

A military-connected learner is defined as somebody who's in the military, somebody who's a veteran or somebody who is an immediate family member, so it depends on the stage of life.

When the person is in an academic institution, we have trained the employment counsellors on how to best marry that experience. It's part of the academic journey, but we look at it through a military-connected lens.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Cathcart.

Ms. Hepfner, you have five minutes, please.

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would also like to thank all of our witnesses for their testimony, for being here today and for their service.

Also, I think we have other veterans in the room. Thank you for being here. Thank you for listening.

Happy Valentine's Day to everyone.

I will turn first to the Honourable Lieutenant-Colonel Sandra Perron.

I absolutely want to come and visit the Pepper Pod. I'm new to this committee, so I don't have the same depth of knowledge as some of my colleagues around here.

I have to say that I was very struck when you mentioned how women, as they're transitioning out of the military, are typically in perimenopause and don't understand the symptoms that they're feeling. I don't think it's specific to the military. I think that's broadly based across Canada. I know that when I started having the symptoms several years ago, it was through people around me that I figured out what was going on with me. We just don't have that knowledge. I want to say that most women are in a situation where there are a lot of women around them, and they can mine that information from each other. They support each other that way. I can only imagine what it would be like to be in the military and not have that kind of female companionship around you to help you understand what's going on with your own body.

I think we're seeing this a lot, too, in the corporate world. When women are finally getting to the position where they're in the C-suite, it's at the same time that they start experiencing all of these extra physical symptoms and don't necessarily know what's going on, and those symptoms have a huge impact.

Would you maybe describe in more detail how women deal with it and possibly how we can start looking at this problem and making it better for women so that we understand and have each other's backs?

[LCol Sandra Perron]

The first thing we need to do is talk about it. We need to talk about it in the military before they leave and then out of the military through the VAC system. We also need to talk about it amongst ourselves, amongst women, and read up on it. I know that this is not unique to the military, but here's the challenge. Women leaving the military who don't have access to a doctor.... It takes time to get those resources to get your hormone levels tested or to even understand what questions to ask your medical practitioner in order to understand those changes. When you've been in an environment where it's almost taboo and there are no other women to ask, then that's a unique challenge that women are having when they leave, especially not having a medical practitioner to help them through it.

The best way is to talk about it. That's what they do at the Pepper Pod. They talk about it freely, and they laugh. Then they figure out that they're not crazy, that they are just normal and it's a whole new life.

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

I felt like I was going through puberty again. Honestly, it's that traumatic.

I know that we're talking about transition, but is there a way to bring that into military service so that it's easier for women? I know it makes men uncomfortable to talk about these sorts of things, but is there a way to create more companionship within the military? There have to be so many challenges because people are moving all over the place. They're in all kinds of different departments.

I'm struck by this idea that there is no sense or very little sense of community among women both inside the service and after they leave. Is there a way to start that sense of community while they are still serving, other than Facebook groups?

[LCol Sandra Perron]

There are two ways. First of all, yes, women can become champions of other women. We're learning that. We haven't always been our best friends. We've often been the opposite. Women are learning. I think, through the generations now, we're seeing a lot of support between women. The second thing is that men have to get uncomfortable and start learning about these things. When I go to my regiment, I don't hesitate to tell them when I'm having a hot flash and I need them to open a window. Yes, they'll go red and be a little embarrassed, but then they talk about it.

We have 25-year-olds who are commanding platoons with women who are in menopause or perimenopause. They need to know that women are not getting sleep during this phase or that they're getting hot flashes, or everything else that comes with it.

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

That's very good.

Ms. Park, do you have anything to add? There are only 30 seconds left.

[Rosemary Park]

I'm going to refer to Karen Breeck again, who initiated a set of six recordings, I think it was, for family physicians of what it's like to be in the military. Maybe there were more, but two of them were for women.

[A voice]

There were nine.

[Rosemary Park]

There were nine. It's amazing what she did with the University of Ottawa in order to help family physicians on the outside to know what it's like to be on the inside, particularly for women. That type of easy-to-view, several-minutes-long “what it's like to be in the military” is not just connected to sexual misconduct—which is the focus, principally.

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

That's what we're hearing today.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you very much.

Before we go to the next panel, I have two quick interventions.

Mr. Desilets, you have two and a half minutes.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Lieutenant Colonel Perron, we heard from a witness last Monday, if memory serves, who told me that, in some cases, military members can be seen by a doctor for a year once they leave the forces.

Does that ring a bell?

[LCol Sandra Perron]

You're saying that a military member who leaves—

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

He could be seen by a military doctor for a year.

[LCol Sandra Perron]

If I'm not mistaken, a person living with a disability, for example, can make a claim in addition to having access to a doctor.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

That said, you would like all military members to have access to a doctor once they leave the forces.

Is that correct?

[LCol Sandra Perron]

They should at least have access to one until they find a doctor themselves.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Okay, I understand.

Do you think there's a direct link between a successful transition and homelessness?

[LCol Sandra Perron]

From a scientific standpoint, I can't confirm that, but from what I see, there is.

A woman who makes a good transition, in other words, a healthy transition, who is monitored and has a good network, is probably less at risk of ending up homeless.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Do you think there's an increase in homelessness in the national capital region?

[LCol Sandra Perron]

I don't know.

That said, I'm often in contact with the Shepherds of Good Hope and the Ottawa Mission. I ask them to send us women veterans if they come in contact with any so that we can help them and find appropriate resources for them.

I can't confirm whether there's been an increase in homelessness.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

No problem. You can't have all the answers.

Military members can take two or three days of transition training. Is that training adequate? If not, what should be changed or improved? What is missing from this training?

[LCol Sandra Perron]

The training is longer than two or three days. A whole transition system has been put in place. We offer courses and training, in addition to support and mentoring. The tools put in place to help military members leaving the forces are extraordinary.