Veterans Affairs Committee on Feb. 14th, 2024

[Wilson Miao, Liberal, Richmond Centre, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all of the witnesses and our guests for being here today.

Happy Valentine's Day to everyone, as well as our veterans. Thank you for your service to Canada.

Transitioning to civilian life is difficult. We've heard that on numerous occasions. Through the chair, I'd like to direct my question to Lieutenant-Commander Park.

I understand that Servicewomen’s Salute Canada's mission is to support Canadian military women and their contributions to Canada. One aspect you focused on is the sense of community and connection between veteran women.

Can you explain the importance of these aspects in the transition to civilian life and the impact of having this sense of community for our women veterans?

[Rosemary Park]

I'm sorry. I didn't quite hear the question.

[Wilson Miao, Liberal, Richmond Centre, BC]

Can you explain the importance of the aspect of community in transitioning to civilian life for women veterans?

[Rosemary Park]

Thank you.

When I presented last April, I spoke about the invisibility of servicewomen and the separation and marginalization of servicewomen. When they were in the military over the past decades, they did not necessarily have the opportunity to be seen together and work together. Now, as civilians, there are a few opportunities for them to be able to feel like they are part of that group, those who have not had that sense of belonging, and to find a new group and place for that.

The Pepper Pod is a very good example of where it comes together. It's here in Ottawa. We have one other non-profit in the Healing Garden, which is also here in Ottawa. There's another non-profit in Nova Scotia. Other than that, there is none.

The sense of connection is found in private Facebook groups. That's the method right now. There are a few others, such as RCAF service airwomen.

Lacking what was not available during their service suggests there is this opportunity now, as veterans, to see themselves with that sense of purpose, but there is not necessarily a mobilizing mechanism to do that.

[Wilson Miao, Liberal, Richmond Centre, BC]

Do you feel there are parts where we can suggest better engagement in more areas across Canada to create the sense of community for our women veterans, especially during their transition to civilian life?

[Rosemary Park]

It's just a perfect opportunity, as individuals are leaving, to see what is out there welcoming them. I call it the warm hand outstretched, so they know what else is possible and what other servicewomen, already having left the military, are doing.

That type of opportunity is available online, but really not in person.

[Wilson Miao, Liberal, Richmond Centre, BC]

Can you share more with the committee about what kinds of challenges women veterans will face during their transition to civilian life?

You mentioned being invisible. How can we provide more support with the transition?

[Rosemary Park]

Of course, there are many different aspects to this. In terms of creating that sense of common moments in their lives, which can be assisted by other women veterans, the opportunities that Servicewomen's Salute is providing are connecting women with information and opportunities to contribute what they know.

That's what we've identified as the opportunity: Tell us what you know about your military service that can help others.

[Wilson Miao, Liberal, Richmond Centre, BC]

Thank you.

I think I'm pretty low on time, but I'd like to go online to Dr. Cathcart.

Can you talk more about the education and training benefit program and how it helps veterans transition to civilian life?

[Dr. Darryl Cathcart]

Excellent. Thank you for the question.

It is certainly a very robust and outstanding program that must be continued. However, there should be some adaptations and exploration to see how we can better serve those who leave the military and join the reserves, or maybe re-enroll after joining the reserves. Perhaps there's an extension to family members, considering the challenges and the length of time it takes some family members who are supporting their uniformed loved ones to gain their credentials, whether it be a diploma, a degree or certification.

It's an outstanding program that appears to be well used. However, it certainly leaves room for some further exploration and refinement, and I would encourage Veterans Affairs Canada to do that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you very much.

Go ahead, Mr. Desilets. You have six minutes.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon to my colleagues, and happy Valentine's Day. It reminds me that we forgot to wish each other happy Valentine's Day in the House earlier. Perhaps the debates would have been less heated.

I'd like to thank our guests for being with us and for their service to the country.

Lieutenant Colonel Perron, what do you think the difference is between men and women when they transition from military life to civilian life, if any?

[LCol Sandra Perron]

There are definitely differences. Men in the Canadian Armed Forces often have a larger network. They have more colleagues, and they engage in activities with them on a regular basis. They'll go out for a beer or play golf, for example. Their social network is very well developed.

However, women, who make up barely 15% of Canadian Armed Forces, don't encounter many women during their career, so they have fewer opportunities to form friendships with other women.

Some of them work in occupations where there are no women at all. In addition, they move every two or three years, much like men. Women need deeper friendships. Over time, they move away from that side of their career that involves forming friendships with women. That's why the transition is more difficult for them when they leave the Canadian Armed Forces. They don't have a network of women to support them.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Can we say that the purpose of the Pepper Pod centre is to facilitate the transition from military life to civilian life by creating friendship groups?

[LCol Sandra Perron]

That's exactly why we exist.

We offer women transitioning out of the military to meet a new group of women. They sit down together for a weekend and they talk about their stories. They tell their stories. They're very vulnerable. So they forge a very deep friendship within this new group. Afterwards, they can continue their transition.

The more women veterans become friends, the more they support each other when some are battling illness, going through divorce, separation, or when others are undergoing detox treatment. In short, they have the support they need to face whatever challenges life throws at them.

That said, women veterans sometimes get together just to pick blueberries, and other times to go on adventures.

Friendship among women is important, especially for women veterans.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

I don't doubt that.

How long after they leave the military do they come to you?

[LCol Sandra Perron]

They can come to us two days after they leave or 30 years later. Really, there isn't a huge difference, because women who left the military 30 years ago still wear the uniform, in a way, as do women who left two years ago.

I say that based on my own experience, but also based on my observations. We take in young women and older women of all ranks. There are a lot of differences, and yet they come together and form very deep bonds.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

How can you explain that some may take 30 years before they need to create friendships?

[LCol Sandra Perron]

I think they've always had that concern. However, there were never any services that gave them the opportunity to create friendships between women who had the same experiences, who had evolved within the same environment, an environment with a specific culture. We give them that opportunity.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

I encourage my colleagues to visit the organization. It's really beautiful.

Lieutenant Colonel Perron, I subscribe to your organization's Facebook page. The pictures you put on it are beautiful. I find it splendid to see seven or eight women talking around a fire.

In an ideal world, what do you think the ideal transition would be? What would be the ingredients for such an ideal transition?

[LCol Sandra Perron]

First, we need to reduce the bureaucratic burden associated with the transition, meaning the amount of paperwork and forms that women veterans have to fill out.

Second, there has to be a good support network that certainly includes support from women on a number of levels: medical, physical, mental and emotional.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Earlier, you told me that women had to wait three months or more to obtain a health insurance card and access medical services, I imagine because of the bureaucracy.

How could we simplify things so that women can have quick access to medical services?

[LCol Sandra Perron]

Members who leave the Canadian Armed Forces and move to their permanent residence shouldn't have to wait three months to get a health card. That's it.

An exception should be made for them. Members of the military—not just women, but men, too—should get their card right away when they arrive in their province of residence after their military service.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Since health is a provincial jurisdiction, are you aware of any differences between the provinces in this area? Is there a model to follow?

[LCol Sandra Perron]

I know there are differences, but I can't tell you exactly what they are. I know you can get the health card right away in Ontario, but you have to wait three months in Quebec.