Veterans Affairs Committee on Feb. 14th, 2024

[Luc Fortier]

My experience is probably the same as that of most veterans.

In my region, in Saguenay, we're often told to go to a private clinic. I did, and I brought my medical file, but I was told that they couldn't accept me as a patient because it was too complicated, even though I paid out of my own pocket.

After 32 years of service in the forces, I'm leaving sick, but it's too complicated for the private sector.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

It's pretty sad when it's so complicated to deal with the forms that even a doctor won't take a veteran on because of that. It's something we have to change.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Richards.

Now on the Liberal side it is Mr. Sean Casey for six minutes.

You can split your six minutes. Go ahead, please.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'll start with you, Ms. Riguidel.

Welcome back.

I was shocked at the first point you raised in your opening statement, when you said that people seeking out the services of the transition units were essentially being told not to go to the media. The first I've heard about that has been at this committee. I'm very concerned about it, and I believe it's something we should act upon.

My question for you is what the best sources are to find out more about this. If we're going to put this in the form of a recommendation, we need more information. Can you tell me where we're most likely to find that?

[Donna Van Leusden Riguidel]

Honestly, I'd say it would be through plugging into the supports that are currently in place.

I could definitely source that through my channels and find stories. I know it was something they attempted to do with me when I released. My release came through in March of 2022, but as early as that summer I received direction from my CO at the time that they were floating a draft media policy that said that no member of the transition centre could do a media interview without a minimum of 24 hours' notice.

I am a major, a public affairs officer, so I was able to push back with the appropriate references and say, “Absolutely not. This flies in the face of all of this guidance”, after which I was immediately dismissed and told that I was obviously feeling very emotional about this issue and that, being a woman, I was sensitive to this concern.

That resulted, honestly, in that CO's being investigated and removed from his post. However, clearly that problem continued, because I have received reports from other, more junior, members, who have told me they have friends who have been asked to sign a document saying that they wouldn't go to the media and they wouldn't tell their story in public. They're scared to come forward now because they're worried they're going to lose benefits.

Benefits have already been pulled away from people going through the transition centre as MST survivors. I'm sure everybody remembers the news story of Vicky Cox, who went forward to the media and said that she was pushed out of the military. CDS introduced a policy that said that those self-identifying as survivors of MST would have a final approval process in which the CDS's office itself would reach out and ask, “Is your file complete? Do you have any investigations? Is there anything outstanding?” and they'd have that last moment to say, “I'm two years away from my pension. Can I extend to get that?” or “I'm in line for a promotion. Can we get that done?” That was quietly lifted away earlier this year, so people are back to pushing people out of the military without that final approval process.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Just to be crystal clear, the policy you're talking about is one that applies to people who are seeking services from the transition units, and not those who are providing them?

[Donna Van Leusden Riguidel]

That is correct.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Okay. Thank you.

I want to talk about your business for a minute. I looked back through the testimony you gave before about training a couple of thousand people in uniform—

[Donna Van Leusden Riguidel]

It was roughly 3,000, including at Fort Leavenworth, which we did in November last year.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

I'm trying to figure out how the work you do in that regard can fit in with transition.

[Donna Van Leusden Riguidel]

Absolutely.

We can help train the people—caseworkers and everyone else—who are dealing with how to support people. Our entire business is built around supporting at first disclosure. In a lot of cases people don't voice the fact, don't disclose the fact, that they've been victimized in this way until the eleventh hour, because they don't feel as though they can.

We help train people to better receive and better honour that courage when a person is ready and able to say that this thing happened to them so they can start that process of healing. Along with that we start to attack the bias and everything else that can contribute to this toxic culture.

It's an elegant course. I am very proud of it. We've trained, as I said, about 3,000. We just delivered our first fully francophone series in November, so now we have capability in both languages.

Again, we've had a lot of interest. One of the biggest problems we've run into is the procurement process, the bottleneck that is trying to work through contracting, which is the other reason I am trying to push for more supports for entrepreneurs. We're a female veteran-owned business, and it's very difficult right now to get through that process.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Mr. Fortier, thank you for your service to the country.

From what I've read, you're currently working on a project to open a therapy home. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

[Luc Fortier]

Do you want me to talk about mine?

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Yes, please.

[Luc Fortier]

I'm working with a team in Saguenay to open a therapy home for people in uniform. Ultimately, it's like the La Vigile therapy home or the CASA centre, but it's taking place in a remote region. It's the same thing. It takes a long time to set up such a centre. I've been working on it for 10 years. I should be able to have an operational location and provide services to the people who need them by the end of the year.

It's a $3‑million project. Some of it, $1.7 million, comes from funding, and the rest comes from grants. If all goes well, we'll have 12 beds. The beauty of this project is that we'll be able to offer our services to our clients. I'll be able to provide healing services, and veterans will also be able to access them.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Congratulations on the work you're doing.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you.

I'll now give the floor to Mr. Desilets for six minutes.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here and sharing their experience and knowledge with us.

Mr. Fortier, to hear you tell it, the Veterans Affairs Canada health care system would be like the famous madhouse in the Asterix album The 12 Tasks of Asterix.

Could you explain to me the difference between the Royal Canadian Legion and the transition centres? I see the difference, but I would like to hear you talk about it, because as part of the legions' mission, I think you're also working in that direction.

[Luc Fortier]

That's absolutely the case. To go back to what you were saying earlier about The 12 Tasks of Asterix, once you've found the permit A‑38 mentioned in the album, everything is fine.

The transition centres are new; they've been around for a year or two. In the past, it was referred to as the service personnel holding list, or SPHL, and the centres had a different name. In short, I think they are slowly finding their vocation. It is important for the Royal Canadian Legion to work with transition groups, because helping veterans is part of the Legion's role. It serves veterans.

As I said, transition groups are new. The people in these groups are still serving, and they don't have time to explain how to fill out all the forms and explain to the veterans who are going to be medically released what's going to happen.

Three weeks ago, I met with the lieutenant‑colonel of the 2nd Canadian Division transition group and his chief warrant officer. I'm talking about the 2nd Division, not all of Canada. I met with them to propose a partnership in which we, the service officers of the Royal Canadian Legion—there are many of them and there are several levels—help veterans who are medically released six months before they leave. If they provide their telephone number, we'll be able to contact them and help them fill out the famous service income security insurance plan, or SISIP, and Veterans Affairs Canada documents.

We could help them understand these complex documents, guide them and tell them that the time to act is when they're still active and have a doctor. That's why we want to be present at this stage to try to reduce the impact of medical release on veterans who are going to leave the forces and who won't have a doctor.

We have a 50‑50 partnership. If we become 100% partners, that will really help the veteran community.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

What is missing from this partnership?

[Luc Fortier]

Obviously there is no love lost between the Royal Canadian Legion and the army in Quebec, for many reasons. These two organizations were simply never integrated. I am not sure if they waited 98 years for Luc Fortier to arrive. Maybe some things were done in the past that no longer exist, but the transition group is new. All the partnerships being made now are more or less new.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

In Chicoutimi you are one of the most dynamic legions in Quebec. Were you consulted before transition houses were put in place?

[Luc Fortier]

In Chicoutimi, no, there was no consultation. As far as the Quebec command is concerned, I do not know because I have been there for only a year. I think so, yes. I would not be surprised if the legion had been consulted on this, but I am not sure.

Obviously, if so, we would be pleased because the legion needs to take part in everything involving helping veterans.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Okay.

In your speech, you obviously made several references to the health care system and the related problems, as other witnesses have today.

In your opinion, what is the difference between a civilian and a veteran looking for a doctor or needing health care?