Veterans Affairs Committee on May 8th, 2024

[Fraser Tolmie, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

Thank you.

Thank you for responding.

That's what I expected you would have heard, and that's what we've heard here in this committee. So what are you going to do about it?

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Mr. Chair, what I would ask is this: Why is the Conservative Party always voting against measures that we are bringing forward to help support our veterans and their family members?

Just last December, we had 30 hours of voting, and it wasn't a question of budget. It was vote by vote, line by line, and every time, every opportunity, the Conservative Party of Canada had to vote to help support veterans, what did they do? They voted against it. On December 7, 2023, they voted against funding to deal with veterans' homelessness, and they voted against additional funding to deal with the backlog.

[Fraser Tolmie, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

Thank you, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Mr. Tolmie, go ahead, please.

[Fraser Tolmie, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

I know, as I said, that your time is extremely precious. What we've heard here in the committee has been a list of issues that continue to haunt and plague veterans. This has been going on since the Liberal government has been in power. This is an issue that has been caused by the Liberal government, and there's been a failure of recognition by this government to reverse the issues that have caused homelessness, that have caused a lack of care for our veterans.

Have you spoken to the Prime Minister and said to him that veterans are being ignored, that they're not asking too much, and that the policies the Liberal government has in place are actually hurting veterans and service personnel?

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

What I will respond to that is I think.... You weren't back here in 2014, and you weren't here during the cuts by the Harper Conservatives. You weren't here when the Conservative Party of Canada closed nine Veterans Affairs offices, when they slashed 1,000 jobs from Veterans Affairs Canada—

[Fraser Tolmie, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

Mr. Chair—

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

—people who provided direct support to veterans, so we certainly have no—

[Fraser Tolmie, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

Thank you, Minister.

Through you, Mr. Chair, I would like for the record to be corrected. there were some efficiencies put in place, but the Liberal government since coming to power has not fixed the issues that are at hand here, so we are continually seeing this issue of homelessness—veterans living on the streets, veterans and service personnel living in their cars, and veterans not being able to afford housing.

This is not just affecting veterans; this is affecting families across Canada. This is an issue that has been created by the Liberal government. What are you going to do about it? Throwing more money at it and making promises like you've been doing for the last eight years doesn't fix the problem.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Minister, you have 25 seconds to conclude this.

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

If finding efficiencies during the previous government meant slashing Veterans Affairs' budgets, slashing 1,000 jobs, and also cutting Veterans Affairs offices, I beg to differ. That is not supporting veterans. That is causing more complications for veterans.

As a result, our government had to clean that up, and that's exactly what we did and what we continue to do. We will always be here to support our veterans. There is always more that we can do, and we are certainly going to do it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Minister.

Now let's go to Mr. Bryan May for the last five minutes.

Mr. May.

[Bryan May, Liberal, Cambridge, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, and your officials, for joining us here today.

I have a question pertaining to something that I think this committee should in fact be taking a look at. The Public Service Commission of Canada pulls data on veterans from the Department of National Defence through a secure channel to identify eligible veterans and CAF members in the public service resourcing system. We learned recently that there was a technical problem that has kept thousands of veterans and CAF members from being hired or from having even the opportunity to apply for public service jobs. Apparently, this may have been going on for as long as three years.

Minister, I would like to hear your reaction on this and how it has impacted the department and, of course, veterans.

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Again, I became aware of the situation probably earlier on this year. The Public Service Commission advised us of the glitch in the system. Since then, I've spoken to my officials—to Mr. Harris here just this week—just to ask again if we had received any feedback with respect to issues that our veterans had to deal with. Thus far, we really haven't received any information that veterans have been negatively impacted by that.

I don't know, Mr. Harris, if you want to elaborate a bit more on that, if there's anything else to add.

[Steven Harris, Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Service Delivery Branch, Department of Veterans Affairs]

I think it's important to understand that Veterans Affairs and other departments that are implicated—like the Canadian Armed Forces, the Department of National Defence and others—are working together to try to make sure that we can find solutions for veterans and Canadian Armed Forces members who may have been impacted by the technical glitch with the Public Service Commission data.

We know that it's important to ensure safe transfer and transition of veterans and Canadian Armed Forces members to employment. We know that a lot of them want to come into the public service. We want to help that process. We're working with the PSC, the Public Service Commission, to find ways to ensure that those veterans who may have been affected or implicated have some recourse in moving forward.

[Bryan May, Liberal, Cambridge, ON]

Thank you.

Do I have a few more minutes?

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Sure.

[Bryan May, Liberal, Cambridge, ON]

Okay.

Minister, you spoke earlier about some of the outcomes, specifically some of the numbers of veterans who are applying. I think that despite the Conservatives' approach to the questions today, we really need to look at the outcomes and at what some of the outcomes have been.

I'm very proud to be working with a gentleman by the name of Aaron Dale, who I know you have had an opportunity to coordinate with. He is, of course, the coordinator of the military veterans wellness program and is a constable with the Toronto police force.

If you speak to Aaron, you will hear very clearly how proud he is, not just of the work they're doing but also of how collaborative VAC has been with him and his team, along with the Legion and OSISS.

I'm wondering if you can speak to that program a little bit and to whether there are ways that we can make sure that this program achieves its goal, which is to have that connection in every single police cruiser across Canada.

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Thank you so much for that important question.

Again, I had the privilege and opportunity to meet with Aaron and his wife, sister and colleague. It was a very informative meeting. They indicated that they're actually, as a police officer, on the streets in Toronto making sure that when veterans are identified, they get in touch with Veterans Affairs Canada to ensure that if they need the emergency fund, they have access to that, and also to help them apply for whatever benefits they are entitled to.

They said it's been a game-changer for the veterans they've worked with. That's because these folks on the ground really care about making a difference for them. It was really great to be able to meet them. Being former veterans themselves, they certainly have walked the walk, and they can talk the talk with these folks.

As you've indicated, they are looking at expanding this program across the country. That is why I was happy to be able to meet with them. They spoke to me of the success stories when they meet with folks. They spoke to me about the collaboration with respect to the Veterans Affairs staff. They certainly want to ensure that this program is available across the country. To do that, they also need to make sure that the proper training is in place. That's why I was able to ensure that specific meetings were made with specific ministers in order to ensure that the conversation can continue.

I as Veterans Affairs minister have indicated that we will continue to collaborate with them as well. Again, so often people don't even recognize that they are veterans. It's important to go find them, ask them the specific questions and ask that right question to them. I'm looking forward to meeting with them.

Thank you again for making sure that the connection and the referral were made.

[Bryan May, Liberal, Cambridge, ON]

Thank you, Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you very much, Mr. May.

Madam Minister, the hour we had is up. I also want to say that the interpreters are used to how quickly you speak. On behalf of the committee members and myself, thank you for coming to meet with us today.

We have heard from the Honourable Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Member of Parliament and Minister of Veterans Affairs. With her were deputy minister Paul Ledwell and senior assistant deputy minister Steven Harris, who will stay on with us.

Committee members, we will take a five-minute break to welcome the new witnesses and conduct the required sound checks. I would also like you to think about the work we will be undertaking after the break week. Will we continue debate on the motion put forward by Mr. Richards or decide on something else?

The meeting is suspended for now.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

I call the meeting back to order.

I would like to begin by welcoming the witnesses who are joining us for this second hour.

In the first hour, Paul Ledwell, deputy minister, and Steven Harris, senior assistant deputy minister, from the service delivery branch, were already here. They're staying with us for the second hour. Joining them are Sara Lantz, assistant deputy minister, from the chief financial officer and corporate services branch; Amy Meunier, assistant deputy minister, from the commemoration and public affairs branch, by video conference; and Pierre Tessier, assistant deputy minister, from the strategic policy, planning and performance branch.

Some of you are committee regulars, but I'd like to point out to Mr. Tessier and Ms. Lantz that a few things have changed with regard to acoustics since their last visit. People are asked to avoid bringing their earpieces close to their microphones, as this causes interference and acoustic problems for our interpreters. Since videoconferencing is less of a problem, I'm not addressing Ms. Meunier.

I'm not going to give each of you five minutes. If you wish, I will give Mr. Ledwell five minutes instead. If not, we'll go directly to questions from members.

Mr. Ledwell, you have the floor.

[Paul Ledwell]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. We're pleased to be here, and we're ready to answer your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

That's excellent. We're going to have a lot more time for questions.

I would ask committee members to please say who their questions are for, since we have five people here.

I'd like to invite Mrs. Cathay Wagantall to start this round of questions for six minutes.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Thank you, all, for being here. I do have questions that I hope you can help me answer with regard to the estimates.

According to table 2 in the VAC 2024-25 departmental plan, the percentage of veterans whose household income is below the low-income measure went from 6% in 2021 to 17% in 2022-23, which is an increase of almost 300%. I'm assuming that means that they have lost buying power, that they have lost the ability to purchase the things they need, such as food and whatnot. They have lost the ability to take care of their own needs. I would just like to know how you would explain that increase in the number of veterans who are below the low income measure.

I'm sorry. I don't know who is best to answer my questions.

Mr. Ledwell, can you answer that one for me?