Veterans Affairs Committee on May 8th, 2024

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

I've moved the motion. It's in order, Chair.

I don't know why we need to suspend. It's clearly in order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

It's a motion.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

I say we call a vote.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Mr. Chair, we haven't received the French version yet, but I'm told that we will be, which is fantastic. Long live Quebec!

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

The motion has been moved by Blake Richards, who would like us to debate it now.

While everyone is looking at the motion, I'd like to remind the witnesses of the usual procedure: We have to debate the motion, but we will come back to the discussion afterwards. I know they're aware of how things work, since they're regulars on the committee.

Ms. Hepfner, the floor is yours.

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

I'm completely opposed to this motion. We just had the minister here for more than an hour. She's completely generous with her time. We've had her here three times in the last few months. Whether it was for an hour or two hours, she's been here and she's answered all of our questions. She's taken her time. Over the last couple of months I've been on this committee, I've watched her take more time than she's required to. She really gives all of her effort to the veterans she meets. She goes above and beyond.

I heard her answer everybody's questions today. I don't think anybody had further questions that they could have kept her here for. I think it was disrespectful to bring this motion.

I heard the Conservatives talk over her while she was here. I hear them talk over the chair. I'm concerned that the party opposite is being disrespectful not only to the elected members of this committee, but to the institutions we're supposed to uphold here. If we have a problem with democracy right now, it's because of stuff like this. It's the Conservatives constantly attacking all of the institutions that make up our democracy.

It's a real shame that our committee time is being wasted with partisan, personal attacks like these. It's shameful. I don't think any of the veterans in this room would support this motion.

[An hon. member]

[Inaudible—Editor]

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

I hear a lot of people trying to talk over me, Mr. Chair, but I think I still have the floor.

It's really disappointing to me to see these kinds of attacks, particularly when we have women ministers. There's a reason it's difficult for women to run in politics. It's stuff like this, and people like Mr. Richards, who attack and talk over women when they're talking.

That's all I have to say.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you.

Now let's go to Mr. Sarai and then to Ms. Blaney.

Mr. Sarai.

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

Mr. Chair, I find this pretty surprising, when the whole gist of Mr. Richards' argument has been that he wants the veterans to be able to ask questions and wants them to be able to get answers. We not only have the deputy minister, the ADM and several officials in the back, but we've also had a minister here.

This is the opportunity to get to the questions. It's about supplementary estimates, if anybody who is not watching the political shenanigans but actually wants to know and is trying to watch to see what the budget has for them and what the estimates show for them, and we're supposed to derive questions out of that to find out what program is enhanced, what program might be cut back, where the resources are going or what needs to be done.

I find it appalling that they just want to make a political statement. Nobody's suppressing their Twitter or their Facebook or their social media feeds to say whatever they want. In fact, they do that regularly, and if that's what they want to do, they should continue to do that, but to take away time from asking questions of our very learned and very astute officials who have given their time, as they're duty bound to do, to answer those questions.... The minister was here, and even during that time, we heard more statements from the opposition about their allotting and their stuff than actual questions, and, when questions were actually thoroughly answered, they were quite afraid and actually shut down their questions really quickly, which is strange, since the value of that time was so immense that we need to do a motion right now to show that there's only one hour.

In fact, I think the minister gave ample time, but I don't think the time is here to give statements, rhetorical statements, for themselves. They can do that whenever they want. It's the time to ask questions. If they're indeed asking questions for the veterans, they should be asking concrete questions about programs, concrete questions about delivery and concrete questions about how we can move forward to make their lives better.

I have 5,000 veterans in my region. I have the only new Veterans Affairs office after the nine were closed down by the Conservatives. Not only did our government reopen the nine of them, but we also opened a new one. Out of the whole country, I think my riding has the most. I don't have those veterans coming to me stating these types of concerns that this motion suggests. I have them coming and asking me to help with the amazing housing complex that we did. I—

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Excuse me, Mr. Sarai. I have a point of order.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Yes, on a point of order, Chair, I really question the relevance of the comments being made. We're speaking to a motion—

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

I'm sorry, Mr. Richards.

Mr. Richards, I'm not going to give you the floor. You're talking about whether this is relevant or not—

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

I'm asking you to rule—

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

I don't think so.

I don't think so. Let's go back to Mr. Sarai.

Mr. Sarai, please.

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

Chair, those are the questions that my constituents are asking me. They're asking me, “How can we help more homeless veterans to be housed?” We have a beautiful veterans village in my riding that was built by the Legion, in their ingenuity in this regard, where they're trying to house veterans as well. I think that's the type of question we need to ask.

Anyway, Chair, I think this is a very frivolous motion, but I do want to hear what other members, including Ms. Blaney, have to say on this.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you.

On the list, I have Ms. Blaney, Mr. Miao and Mr. Brian May.

Ms. Blaney.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

I'm hoping that we can just call the vote and get this out of the way so that we can move on.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Ms. Blaney, but I still have people on the list.

Mr. Miao.

[Wilson Miao, Liberal, Richmond Centre, BC]

I do agree. Let's call the vote because this is really a waste of time for our committee, and it's disrespecting our democratic system right here.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

For the last intervention—maybe the last—I have Mr. May.

[Bryan May, Liberal, Cambridge, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I too think we should vote.

The only point I would like to make is that two-thirds of the question time that the Conservatives used had nothing to do with the estimates, which is what the minister was actually asked to appear for today.

I suggest we vote.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

I have no other interventions.

I will ask the clerk to take the vote on that motion, please.

(Motion negatived: nays 7; yeas 4)

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Mr. Richards, you have two minutes left. The floor is yours.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The last time you were here, Mr. Ledwell, we talked about homeless veterans. I asked a question at that time about how many homeless veterans were out there and if you had a number for that. You were able to give us a rough guess, but told us it was difficult to figure that out. I can appreciate that it probably is, but clearly, we're seeing a situation in this country with the cost of living crisis whereby more and more veterans are homeless.

I think it's something that we all understand is happening. It's a shame. It's something that needs to change.

Obviously, the first step in being able to address something is being able to figure out the extent of the problem. I'm wondering if, since the time you were last here, there have been some efforts made to to try to better determine the number of homeless veterans who are out there, and if there's been an effort made to reach out to them to let them know about the programs that might be available to help them.