Veterans Affairs Committee on Oct. 30th, 2025

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Excellent. I still have a little time.

So, that connection needs to be maintained, and support must be available, including to relatives, children and spouses, who are the first line of support. What I'm also hearing is that becoming a specialist does not mean that you've worked in the armed forces. It's more about better understanding individuals. It has been suggested that people receive specific training, which would enable other doctors like you to take over and maintain a connection to provide psychological support to these people. What are your thoughts on that?

[Marc-André Bernard]

Yes. Specific training would be necessary, as Ms. Symonds explained. This kind of involvement in this kind of work is not very common. It is important to understand what this kind of investment in one's career entails and the effects it can have. I can't really speak to the RCMP, but the military is a culture within a culture. It's a very different culture. I find that men and women in the military have a hard time opening up to someone who's unfamiliar with the culture. It's much easier for me to offer therapy now, 10 or 12 years later, because I know all the codes and the culture and I know how people operate. It is easier to create a protective bond with them, in my opinion.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Bernard.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marie-France Lalonde]

Thank you, Ms. Gaudreau.

Next, we have Mrs. Wagantall for five minutes.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Thank you, Chair.

Ms. Symonds, thank you so much for what you shared today, and how it relates to what the ombudsman shared with me at this committee.

I want to clarify.... You realize that at the moment VAC is limited in its ability to do what we're requesting. The government agreed that family members deserve to have mental health care in their own right. However, the legislation needs to be changed to give VAC that window to provide that service.

To clarify, you are asking the government to make the legislative change to include family members in their own right to receive that treatment. Would you agree?

[Samara Symonds]

That is my understanding from the ombudsman, whom I trust as a very reputable source, of what's required. I have heard different potential ideas that are very much in their infancy.

I appreciate any effort that MPs are making to try to improve services. However, we still like the long-term objective of it being properly legislated to protect that right.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Thank you so much.

Mr. Bernard, in your work with veterans, are there ever times when they share their thoughts of committing suicide as the answer to their circumstances?

[Marc-André Bernard]

Yes, there are.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Can you tell me at what point of your engagement with veterans do you learn of this concern in their hearts and minds?

[Marc-André Bernard]

Once the therapeutic relationship is installed, it's something I have to probe for and something I have to bring forth. It usually doesn't come from them.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

As you work through that with the them, have they ever shared circumstances where they have considered MAID, or have been encouraged to consider that, as an option in light of their circumstances?

[Marc-André Bernard]

I've never seen a case where people were encouraged to consider it, but I've seen vets being shaken by the suicide of combat brothers and this opening a door of consideration for it in their minds.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

If I'm interpreting that correctly, having seen comrades and friends commit suicide, perhaps seeing how that impacts family, are they then looking at MAID as an alternative?

[Marc-André Bernard]

Maybe we misunderstood each other. What I meant to say is that when one of their combat brothers commits suicide, it sometimes shakes them to the point of also considering it.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Okay, I understand. That's very disheartening.

You talked about veterans having a choice in the type of treatment they choose and that there are many different kinds of opportunities for them. I know they speak to each other and hear where things have gone well with the type of treatment they've received. Can you speak a little bit to the need to give veterans far more choice in what type of treatment they choose? I know we have this whole new program with PCVRS that is supposed to assist them with finding providers.

What's your perspective on the role of the veteran in their own treatment?

[Marc-André Bernard]

As I said in my presentation, I think it's a difficult position, because we need them to have more self-determination, but it is very hard for them to do that because they've learned not to for many years. I think they are sometimes at a loss with the choices they have to make.

I do agree with what you're saying, that more choices have to be offered, because some approaches are not for some people. For example, exposure to trauma is a very efficient way to treat trauma, but it is a very difficult one. Some people are not made for it, and we have to respect that. I think they should have more choices.

Maybe we're out of time, but I do have problems with the way PCVRS does rehab at the moment.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marie-France Lalonde]

You have 20 seconds.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

You treat PTSD. Are you able to discern when an injury is PTSD and when it might be due to TBI, a brain injury?

[Marc-André Bernard]

I don't have the expertise for that, but we always screen for it, because if there was TBI, there needs to be an investigation on that side to make sure those are not overlapping. They can sometimes seem the same, but they won't give the same results in talk therapy.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marie-France Lalonde]

Thank you, Mr. Bernard.

Ms. Auguste, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Tatiana Auguste, Liberal, Terrebonne, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I would like to thank Ms. Symonds for being here this morning and for sharing her story.

Mr. Bernard, you said that, as your interactions with the veterans you see unfold, suicide sometimes comes up. In your practice, what barriers do you encounter to preventing suicide among veterans?

[Marc-André Bernard]

The obstacles I encounter are often related to getting veterans to talk openly about this solution. This is often a difficult subject to bring up, and they will keep quiet about it in an attempt to protect their families. The other obstacle I see is the same as for treatment in general, namely, that veterans have been trained not to disclose anything that could be perceived as a weakness. I always try to communicate the psychological concept that suicidal thoughts or post-traumatic symptoms have nothing to do with weakness of character, but rather reflect suffering.

These thoughts must be brought to the forefront if we want them to subside, if we want to understand what they're talking about. The main obstacle is getting the veteran to be able to open up completely about this subject and talk about it. Veterans are often afraid that I will have them hospitalized or take severe action if they mention suicidal thoughts. However, in reality, if suicidal thoughts are detected early on, there is plenty of time to talk about them at length so that they dissipate. Therefore, there is no need to take action. When quick action is needed, it's often because the thoughts have been present for a very long time.

[Tatiana Auguste, Liberal, Terrebonne, QC]

Thank you very much.

In the context of science, you mentioned earlier some approaches that you haven't adopted, but that have been adopted elsewhere. Ms. Symonds mentioned that she receives support from her peers. In your practice and based on your expertise, what role does peer support play for our veterans?

[Marc-André Bernard]

That's a very good question.

Veterans are a little different on this subject. Some will feel that they need to be supported by people who can fully understand their situation. They will therefore benefit greatly from peer support, from people to whom they don't need to explain a lot of things. It's a protective network. However, other veterans, upon leaving the armed forces, feel the need to distance themselves from the military and their comrades in arms. In their case, the support would be very different and would instead involve helping them create a network in the civilian world that would provide them with support.

I've seen both, but peers can certainly play an important role. The problem, at least among the generation of military members I've treated, is that these people don't talk about these things much among themselves, or don't dare to talk about them, when they could sometimes offer each other valuable support if they were at least able to talk about them.