Evidence of meeting #10 for Veterans Affairs in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was research.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Marie-France Lalonde
Thank you very much, sir.
We are now going to Mr. Casey for five minutes.
October 30th, 2025 / 9:55 a.m.
Liberal
Sean Casey Liberal Charlottetown, PE
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Dr. Held, I want to start with you on a point raised by Mr. Nedohin around psilocybin. We've heard some of that testimony throughout the course of this.
Can you offer commentary on the state of research with respect to psilocybin? What we hear, anecdotally, is that it works—we heard it again today—but we also hear that we're not ready for mainstream approval, because the evidence is not there yet. As the scientific director of CIMVHR, can you tell me where we are with respect to the research into psilocybin?
Interim Scientific Director, Canadian Institute for Military and Veteran Health Research
I can speak to the higher-level aspects of this. It is not my intention to discredit anecdotal experience. That's not what research does. Psilocybin is something that might be beneficial to some people.
The state of the research is that there are various levels of clinical trials that are under way, some within Canada and more in Australia and the United States as well.
The effectiveness of any kind of therapeutic intervention is one piece of it. There are also challenges with implementation that we have to understand from a health care system perspective, and then we also have to understand those pieces where it can do harm. There is some research out there that suggests suicide might be a side effect. Now, I'm not saying that's strong; I don't know of that research specifically, but it is mentioned. There are things that have the potential to do harm as well, like any life-saving medicine, so we have to balance the overall picture of what is beneficial versus what could be harmful as well.
Research is clearly under way, and there is a lot of work in that area. There may be potential for that in the future.
Liberal
Sean Casey Liberal Charlottetown, PE
Thank you.
Mr. Nedohin, I want to come to you.
You talked about the letter you received from Veterans Affairs, which ignored science with respect to traumatic brain injury. You said that what saved your life was your family and the Concussion Legacy Foundation. Is that Tim Fleiszer's organization?
Liberal
Sean Casey Liberal Charlottetown, PE
Okay. We've heard from him at committee before.
Can you talk about their role in pulling you back?
Farmer, As an Individual
The biggest thing was that they believed me, first of all. It was also the weight of their organization and the amount of connections and research they have.
Last year, when I was here dealing with all that, one of the things I brought up was why we're not leaning more heavily on private industry. Private industry is always going to surpass government when it comes to research and when it comes to anything else.
Dr. Cyd Courchesne, the chief medical officer of VAC, said something in a conversation with me about how they have only a small research team and it takes them a long time to do research. I said, “Why are you not relying more heavily on private industry and accessing those resources?” There were a slew of different reasons, but that's what I would say.
I don't know if that answers your question or not.
Liberal
Sean Casey Liberal Charlottetown, PE
After you talked about the Concussion Legacy Foundation, you said the ADM said to you that the letter was a mistake, and then I thought I heard you say, “The problem has since been rectified”. What did you mean by that?
Farmer, As an Individual
On the issue where vets were receiving these letters denying that explosions could basically cause brain damage, they have since stopped sending out those letters and have started recognizing TBI as a claimable injury. Until that point, we were not able to claim TBI, or we would put in the claim and it would just sit in limbo for years. I know mine was, I think, two years or more. For some guys, it has been like 18 months, two years or two and a half years and there were no approvals.
Then I went public and, lo and behold, they were politically embarrassed or publicly embarrassed or whatever, and boom—all of a sudden the research was good to go.
Liberal
Sean Casey Liberal Charlottetown, PE
Thank you.
Dr. Held, you were shortchanged trying to answer in 10 seconds Mr. Clark's question with respect to the collaboration with the Aussies. You can use the rest of the time to give us a more complete answer, please.
Interim Scientific Director, Canadian Institute for Military and Veteran Health Research
That's almost double the time, so that's great.
I'll answer it by saying that one of the key things is that we have very similar levels of government. That's why we have the Five Eyes nations. That's from the cultural experiences of most of the countries within the Five Eyes, and military experience as well. We know that psychedelics research, and other research, is a bit further ahead in Australia than it is in Canada. There are ways we should be looking at collaborating and leveraging understanding. This work will have to be done in Canada.
It's a different mechanism, of course, but to leverage what we have within those Five Eyes nations and make sure we are collaborating with different agendas within research and outside, I think, is a critical thing for us to do.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Marie-France Lalonde
Thank you.
Ms. Gaudreau, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.
Bloc
Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Mr. Nedohin, I'd like to get your impression. Given what has been experienced in recent decades, I have a concern about the increase in defence and also about what is happening with global, economic or other crises. If we talk about commitment and pride in enlisting, does a veteran like you think that the next generation will be more difficult?
Farmer, As an Individual
Sorry, that's what the translation said: “Do you believe it will be harder to fund the next generation?”
Farmer, As an Individual
Okay.
I don't know. When I was leaving the military, it was a sinking ship. I don't know. I've been out of it for a while.
Bloc
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Marie-France Lalonde
Give me just a second.
I think we can try again.
Please go ahead, Mr. Nedohin.
Farmer, As an Individual
If I understand your question, you're basically asking me where the military is headed and whether it is going to be difficult to find people to put into the military, based on.... I certainly tell people not to join the military, because of its current state. We have neglected and destroyed our military over the last.... Since we left Afghanistan in a combat role, the military has been getting defunded, basically. It's not defunded, but it hasn't had the money that it needs pumped into it. Now we're playing catch-up. It's like a student who didn't study all semester and now is cramming at the last minute for a test.
We ignored the fact that a global war is potentially coming. People have been screaming at the top of their lungs, shouting it from the rooftops that we need to invest in our military. Why would anybody want to join the military when there's no military housing available, you're going to have the worst gear, and you're going to be treated and paid not very well?
I don't know what it's like now. I'm hearing it's actually picking up pretty well, so I don't know.
People want to join to be warriors and to fight.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Marie-France Lalonde
Thank you very much.
We will have three minutes and then another three minutes to close this panel.
We will go to Mrs. Wagantall for three minutes, please.
Conservative
Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK
Thank you so much, Chair.
Thank you both for being here.
Shane, you have TBI. There's no question that concussions, as every veteran knows, can cause that injury, as well as some pharmaceuticals. We know that mefloquine causes brain stem injury. It gets conflated with PTSI, and I don't understand why. I know there is some crossover, but there are areas that identify them specifically.
I don't understand, Mr. Held, why we don't push the fact that we understand and know what TBI is and what PTSI is. We are sometimes very selective in saying that Canada can't do this on its own and it needs the help of other countries to study this. Other times, we're told that they know this already, but we don't, so we need to study it. This is causing great duress for our veterans.
Can you identify a TBI versus PTSI?