Evidence of meeting #14 for Veterans Affairs in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was families.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Marie-France Lalonde
Thank you, Ms. Gaudreau.
Thank you, Mr. Marceau.
Let's move on to a five-minute question period.
I would like to invite Ms. Wagantall to take her five minutes.
Conservative
Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK
Thank you so much, Chair.
Thank you both for being here today. I see that you have a helper. That's awesome.
I have some questions for you, Michel. You sound like you are very proud of your service, and rightly so, but it was difficult. Most of what you've experienced in frustration seems to have come around when you came back.
That is what's called sanctuary trauma. It's the term we use here. You're expecting care and it's not coming, or it's not being provided in the way you need. Would that be accurate? Do you know what I'm saying?
Conservative
Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK
It's fine. French is fine. I wish I could speak French.
As an Individual
The care isn't suited to a guy like me and all my buddies. Back when the army was the army, in 1991, and Metallica was Metallica, it was the stairway of shame on the base.
When I went up there to see Dr. Marc Dauphin—whom I salute; he's a great man who's helped a lot of veterans, a hell of a doctor—on the third step, I almost fell down the stairs and broke my neck. I had a moment of weakness, I was on the stairway of shame. I went up to the second floor, looking at the floor. I would have much rather been shot in Afghanistan than go there.
For a career soldier like me, it was hard to accept having to go there. In the end, after several visits, I realized that all of my buddies I'd lost touch with had ended up there. The only things missing were beer and chips.
I don't know if that answers your question.
Conservative
Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK
That's helpful. Thank you.
You made the comment that you did the opposite of what they told you to do. I'm curious about that. You found a way to deal with your circumstances. You talked about the spiritual side of life and yoga. Is that where that fits in?
At our last meeting, we had someone come and give testimony about a program he does. Ernie Wouters was here and talked about how we're a triangle, which is the strongest shape. We are body, mind and soul. Could you talk to me about what you were experiencing there? The soul, he says, is actually the point of what we need to cope with to heal.
Conservative
Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK
Is that what you did when you did the opposite? You talked about yoga and martial arts.
As an Individual
I'll try to keep this brief and give you the Post‑it version, as the doctors say when you have to deal with a 1,200‑page file.
On October 21, 2024, I stopped using marijuana. I was smoking three grams a day. I was a husk of a man. I was taking pills. Doctors are against cannabis, but cannabis is less harmful than their pills. When I stopped using cannabis, I went crazy for five days. With the pills, I've now been in the psych ward four times and attempted suicide twice.
To get back to your question, I went to the yoga ashram in Val-Morin. I took three instructor courses and spent two and a half months there. From 2011 to 2012, I took basic instructor training, advanced instructor training, and an intensive sadhana, which is a super-intensive practice for instructors.
Yoga isn't popular among veterans because it's difficult and demanding when you're not doing well. Not to mention the optics are off. As my girlfriend says, it seems feminine. Personally, I find that certain yoga positions, such as the locust, require more effort than when I'm deadlifting four plates. It's not feminine, and you have to breathe properly.
Taking pills is much easier. It doesn't require any effort, but yoga isn't magic either.
Conservative
Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK
What we learned at the last meeting as well is that psychiatry and psychology.... When you prepare and train, there are no courses whatsoever on trauma. The methods of treatment are often medications. Is that correct? How did you make the decision not to use medications and go this other route? I'm just curious.
As an Individual
I had no choice. The last time I hit rock bottom was in June. Sometimes I still feel depressed. After taking the right medication and following the right treatment, I now suffer from bipolar disorder. I've been strongly advised not to be sarcastic, but I can't help it.
Earlier, I mentioned that I'm a soldier at heart. I can't imagine life any other way. I've found other healthy ways to get through the winter. I'm going to take part in search and rescue operations when snowmobilers get lost. It's stressful and dangerous, but it will give me an adrenaline rush and do me good.
Back home, we operate like a military base. There are no ranks. We insult each other as if we were brothers.
I don't know if that answers your question.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Marie-France Lalonde
That's great, Mr. Marceau.
Thank you very much.
We'll go to Ms. Hirtle for five minutes.
Liberal
Alana Hirtle Liberal Cumberland—Colchester, NS
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you all for being here today.
Ms. Anderson, thank you for sharing the experience of your late husband, family and the other people you are here to represent. As I think we've discussed, I've also experienced the loss of a spouse, so I can only imagine the differences our paths have taken for us to continue to bring their memory forward.
I recognize the petition that you and my colleague MP Richards have brought forward. When the veterans ombud was here earlier this fall, she spoke eloquently about the recommendations outlined in her report. Plus, I think when the minister was here last month, you may have had the opportunity to speak directly with her after her testimony in October.
Was there any follow-up engagement after that conversation with the minister?
As an Individual
Yes, there was. I had been asking for a meeting for quite some time, and after I talked to the VAC minister after her testimony, I was contacted within 24 hours for that meeting.
Liberal
Alana Hirtle Liberal Cumberland—Colchester, NS
That's good to hear.
Can you share with us some of the goals you hoped to advocate for with the minister?
November 25th, 2025 / 4:15 p.m.
As an Individual
What I would like to see is, of course, mental health care for families. What we also need is survivor-specific case managers, veteran service managers and financial services, because we have different needs and different financial requirements. How do I explain it? They need to be trained in certain sensitivities, and that's not currently happening.
One thing I've been discussing for quite some time is that we need survivor-specific case managers, VSAs and financial services that are dedicated to us. The U.S.A. realized this as well. Canada hasn't quite realized it, but the U.S.A. did realize it, and they have set aside certain programs specifically for survivors because of the unique need.
Veterans Affairs already has specific teams to deal with OUTCAN, the RCMP and indigenous people. We are asking for something similar.
I think what's missing is that Veterans Affairs, and this has come from, of course, many years.... This is how it operates: veterans in front, and rightly so, then veterans' families and then monuments and commemoration. There are families that live in this middle space, families I help. There is a lack of acknowledgement, care and service in that space, so that's what I'm here to get.
We need to recognize that survivors are a separate client group with unique issues deserving of respect, research, acknowledgement and actual solutions.
Liberal
Alana Hirtle Liberal Cumberland—Colchester, NS
Can you tell us more? You mentioned that there were some breakdowns at the provincial level. Can you talk a bit more about the challenges that families are facing in accessing services provincially?
As an Individual
I deal with families across the country. It varies greatly what they're able to access provincially.
Liberal
As an Individual
Exactly. Each community offers different services for grieving families, so I can't really discuss that part of it.
Liberal
Alana Hirtle Liberal Cumberland—Colchester, NS
That's fair.
Was there anything further? When MP Casey was asking a question, was there anything you wanted to add to your answer? We have 30 seconds left.
As an Individual
Yes, actually. I wanted to talk about the 2021 audit that VAC did on survivor benefits.
VAC scored just above a fail, and there needs to be discussion on that. This might not be the right venue; I'm not sure. I only have a couple seconds, but there needs to be a discussion on why exactly they scored just above a fail when dealing with survivors. In fact, the audit says they're making up their own booklets because they don't have the right guidance booklets from the department.
Liberal