Veterans Affairs Committee on Nov. 27th, 2025

[Alana Hirtle, Liberal, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Good morning, everyone. Thank you for being here, and thank you for your service.

I'm going to turn to Ms. Deraiche and Lieutenant‑Colonel Plourde.

Thank you for taking your time this morning to talk about your services at The Trail and your work with the veteran community.

I'd like to do a bit of a table set, if I may. At a previous meeting, we heard results from an Australian study around veterans and suicide. The first five years after serving are the most important years for a successful transition to civilian life.

I'd like to understand how those results do or don't overlap with the experience of Canadian veterans. Can you tell me how clients first learn about your organization and the work that you do?

[Bruno Plourde]

Mainly it is by word of mouth. We are a very young organization. When I got out from active duty, I was a reservist afterwards, so I was linked to the community. I heard from the other commanding officers of the reserve unit and the regular force unit in my region that they have guys who have issues but that they cannot manage them. So I said, “Bring them on.”

From there, people were happy. It's like good business. You're doing something good; you're doing something right. You talk to the people when they're happy. They talk to people who feel helped. They got through.

Trying to talk to the institution at any level, provincial or federal—Veterans Affairs and the DND—doing prevention, is an obstacle course with fire and acid. We hear, “We don't have the time. We are too busy. We are in an operational thing.” All the excuses are good to not take the time to pass the information about what happens after, because everybody is in the now or the process. We hear, “Do you fit the box? We are a one-stop shop. You cannot do that.” We ask, “Why?” and get “We don't work that way.” Well, I don't care about you; I'm doing it. My customer is the veteran. He's tired of the stovepipes. So, he comes here, and it's one stop. He has only one thing on his brain. Just hearing that, veterans can actually get it. Now, they're coming and referring.

[Alana Hirtle, Liberal, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

How long into their transition do you typically begin working with a veteran? At what point and under what circumstance would you determine a successful outcome?

[Chloé Deraiche]

We work with them throughout their transition to civilian life. More and more of them are starting to work with us during this process, which is a very good thing. We were just talking about prevention earlier. We feel that when we offer our services to veterans even before they get discharged, that's part of it.

Some don't even know they're entitled to services, even though they've been discharged for 5, 10, 15, 20 or even 30 years. They hear about us by word of mouth, or their family refers them to us, for example. We try to actively participate in various activities, whether local or provincial, institutional or community, to promote our services.

Word of mouth is very effective. So we offer our services at various stages of the transition.

[Alana Hirtle, Liberal, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Thank you.

In looking at your website and some of your services, I notice that you have equine therapy at a couple of locations. I'm wondering what the benefits to improve physical and mental health are when veterans work with animals.

[Bruno Plourde]

Animals don't judge. If you're good, you're good. You cannot fake to a dog, a cat or a horse. If you don't feel good, you can tell yourself that all is good, but the animal will not actually come to you. That is because you're a threat; you're not stable. Using that is one of the ways to actually accept who you are and where you're at. That's the foundation to get better. Horses do that. We're also doing that with veterans' families. While the veteran can have services, we have day camps for kids. However, they are actually doing something similar to what their parent is doing. That gives them something to talk about at home other than the transition issue. It's not always about therapy; it's about being a medium to make people get together and get better. As for a horse, why not? It's cool. They are peaceful. I have never heard of anybody who got super excited beside a horse.

[Alana Hirtle, Liberal, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Thank you.

As we know, it's not just the veteran; it's the family and everyone around them who is involved in this process.

That's wonderful. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marie-France Lalonde]

Thank you very much, Mrs. Hirtle.

Ms. Gaudreau, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Ms. Deraiche, you say that you are an essential organization and that you help veterans transition to civilian life. You also said that you have to promote your services yourself. Did I understand correctly?

As members of Parliament, before we take up our duties, we receive training and we have an assistant. Later on, if we're not re-elected, they guide us and help us.

I can't get over the fact that you have to self-promote. From now on, more people will know you, and I hope the message is clear: You need money, and you need access to a doctor. There are solutions. I was saying that it was a matter of will, and this is an example of that. That's why we're doing this study. We may have done this 50 times, but at some point, the tide has to turn.

You say you're making a difference.

What does that mean in concrete terms?

[Chloé Deraiche]

Earlier, I gave you an example of testimony that I think is extremely representative. That's exactly what we hear on a regular basis, all the time.

I have an example that comes to mind. We had a veteran stay at our shelter. Veterans are supposed to be housed for four to six months, but in his case, it lasted almost a year. So we went past the housing period. We're lucky that we don't have to wade through little check boxes and forms. We can be creative.

One of the things this veteran explained to us was that he was separating from his wife and that he could relate his troubles to his service, to his deployment in Afghanistan. When he left the Armed Forces, he said that he was very solid and that things were going well. He was finally able to say that he had been diagnosed with post-traumatic stress and that those around him were facing some consequences of it.

While he was staying at our transition house, he was able to have his children visit. In fact, that was one of the things he mentioned, that he could stay in a stable, clean, furnished place. He said that he could have his children visit safely and that it reassured his wife, who was his ex-wife at the time. They are now living together again.

This allowed her to see a psychologist, calm down, stabilize her situation, not break down everything at the family level, and maintain the connection. They got back together after that.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

My time is up, but we'll resume this discussion later. You just gave us a concrete example, and I love it.

Thank you very much, Ms. Deraiche.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marie-France Lalonde]

Thank you very much, Ms. Gaudreau.

With that, I would like to know how the witnesses are doing.

Do we need a five-minute break? I just want to make sure you're doing okay.

Can we continue, or do you want to take a quick five-minute break? I just want to make sure you're okay.

I see that everyone agrees that we can continue the meeting.

I will now give the floor to Mr. Tolmie.

You have five minutes.

[Fraser Tolmie, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

Thank you, Madame Chair.

I've sensed in this committee today a bit of frustration and it's not because of our witnesses; I think it's just because of what we've been experiencing. I'd like to start off by saying that VAC's mandate has to change.

The privilege I had this morning was to wake up in a warm bed, to have a hot shower, to kiss my kids before I left for work and drink a nice cup of coffee. We have veterans who are sleeping on the streets. We have veterans sleeping in their cars. We have veterans who are couch surfing. I wouldn't have the privileges I have without the service they have done.

VAC's mandate has to change because we're waiting for veterans to come to us to ask for help instead of our going to them.

When they said, “Yes, send me, I will go and serve my nation” and we turn around and say, “no” to...it's unacceptable. It's our nation's responsibility to look after veterans.

When I say, "Thank you for your service, for what you've done", I am thanking you for the privileges you've given me and others around this table.

Lieutenant-Colonel Plourde, thank you again for your service. One of the things you mentioned was the difficulty of transitioning. I sometimes think we over-complicate things and could simplify things. As a serving member, would you say it would be smart for us to just sign a release form for all serving members so their paperwork could be released upon their own release from service, enabling them to go to the doctors or for these forms to be accessed in a shorter time?

[Bruno Plourde]

You made a statement that, still, the VAC mandate has to change. I'll say no. The VAC mandate has to be applied. Their job is to take care of veterans. It's how they are doing it, or the perception of how it's done, that is the issue. If their job is to help the veteran—and you just mentioned it in your question—VAC has the power, as a department of the Canadian government, to turn around, to talk with its colleagues and to sort it out.

It's not like open heart surgery or nuclear science. It's file A to point B. At that time you can use a stovepipe. That might help. We just go straight out. It's basic common sense. We have it. Then afterwards, it goes to the provinces through a mechanism that is no different.

The image I have in my head is this. How come the only departments that actually seamlessly talk to each other are the Canada Revenue Agency and Revenu Québec. They talk to each other with no issues. They're taking our taxes, and that's not a problem. If they talk to each other, federal and provincial, how could it be done in other aspects of our lives?

[Fraser Tolmie, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

It's a good point. They take taxes; we don't pay them.

[Bruno Plourde]

They want our goods, and they take them.

[Fraser Tolmie, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

I read in your bio that you were helping with housing for Second World War veterans and Korean vets. Do you think that's important for us to be able to do that for modern-day vets? The program you're working with is Maison Biéler, if I'm not mistaken.

[Bruno Plourde]

We work with Ste. Anne's Hospital. We still have veterans there—fewer and fewer, unfortunately. At the end of the day, they are Canadian citizens who just so happen to have served. We work in conjunction. We complement each other instead of competing against each other.

We don't need a shelter for veterans. We need people in shelters who can identify, like Constable Dale mentioned. When we know who they are, we can actually find people who will customize—for the lack of better term—the help they need and will funnel them to the appropriate support. It's doable.

Again, in the army, we spent our lives talking about the “we” instead of the “me”. We're in a society of “me”. What's in it for me?

[The Chair, Liberal, Marie-France Lalonde]

Mr. Plourde, I'm so sorry, I was so interested in what you were saying that I didn't see that the time was up.

We will now go to MP Casey.

Thank you very much, Mr. Plourde.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you to all of our witnesses for being with us today.

Constable Dale, thank you for spending some time with me a month or so ago to explain more about your program. I'm going to focus most of my questions on the program.

When we met, you provided a fairly detailed brief on enhancing veteran-centred care. I understand that to be the expansion of the program that you've developed. My first question is fairly straightforward. Have you submitted the brief to the committee?

[Cst Aaron Dale]

Not yet, sir. I'm expecting to do that tonight.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

That would be appreciated. You can only get so much into the five minutes. You're going to get most of the next five minutes to expand on it, but this is helpful as well.

Please explain the role of the Canadian Police Knowledge Network in your work.

[Cst Aaron Dale]

There are around 218 police services in Canada. The majority of them use something called the Canadian Police Knowledge Network. It's an online data portfolio where all the police services that are part of that can log in and do the training. The Toronto Police Service published the training on that platform and waived all the fees, so this training is free for all Canadian police services that use it.

We've had 22,000 completions. The 30,000 RCMP personnel and the 10,000 OPP personnel use a different system. We want every police service to take our training for free and to take our referral form for free so that every police officer in Canada recognizes a veteran and directly connects them to Veterans Affairs Canada, the Royal Canadian Legion and OSISS.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

One of your recommendations and one of the things we talked about was the expansion and the scaling of this training. You have a costed estimate of $375,000 over three years. What's the status of that funding and that expansion?

[Cst Aaron Dale]

The program has already proven to work across sectors along police, fire, paramedic and corrections. When we have that vulnerable veteran who's suicidal, homeless or in crisis and with complex needs, we need to pass them off, and we want to pass them off to health care to address their medical needs, but medical needs in the veteran community are very complex, and there are multiple things going on.

We need proper cultural competency training, proper awareness and proper information for how public health and private health can interact with VAC. To do that, we want to manipulate and augment our military veterans wellness program training for public health in conjunction with CIMVHR, Sunnybrook Hospital, CAMH, Queen's University and Toronto police, and then make it available to all health care practitioners.

The cost is $400,000. It will be a certified medical education credit. To keep your licence in Canada to be a doctor or a health care professional, you need CME credits. This could now be a CME credit, which would motivate all public and private health to take that training. They get credit to retain their qualification, and now we're communicating to them how to interact with and identify a veteran and help their medical needs. If we address their medical needs across all of health care, then we have increased public safety and decreased the homelessness crisis and suicide.