Veterans Affairs Committee on Nov. 27th, 2025

[Chloé Deraiche]

Yes, there is really a lot of red tape. There are certainly ways to make it easier.

I recently spoke to a veteran who told me that he's lost many more brothers and sisters in arms since he returned to Canada than when he was in Afghanistan. In fact, the system has a lot to do with it.

The veterans we work with often feel that they are forever applying for the benefits to which they are entitled. They shouldn't have to beg for them.

The application platform is not user-friendly. Some people with university degrees have trouble using it. So you can imagine what it's like for someone whose job was to screw in bolts, for example. There really must be a way to make the whole process more accessible and less complicated.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Airdrie—Cochrane, AB]

Mr. Plourde, please go ahead.

[Bruno Plourde]

Believe the veteran when the veteran calls. For 23 years I was in the infantry or special forces. I have difficulty hearing my children: Yup—tick—you need hearing aids. I don't need an audiologist. I don't need endless medical forms. I was an artillery gunner. I was beside the 155-millimetre cannon for six months, shooting every day. I don't know why, but my back hurts: Duh.

The veteran's got it, so from the outset, the people in care need to ask—check—and not give the veteran an MRI, three forms, the signatures of three doctors and one specialist: “We'll see in six months if your back still hurts.”

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Airdrie—Cochrane, AB]

I couldn't have said it better myself. It sounds crazy to hear it out loud, but it's what's happening.

We'll let you close us off, Mr. Dale.

[Cst Aaron Dale]

The military is awesome. A lot of people have some incredible, amazing experiences in the military. But when it's time to leave, it's very sad, because you're not going to have that friendship. You're not leaving on the best terms. You're upset. You're scared. You're nervous. You're going into the unknown. Then you have this transition point, and you feel like you could have done more. You could have done something different. You could have had a better experience on that side. Then you're climbing the mountain of Veterans Affairs.

Yes, sanctuary trauma is definitely a thing, but we need to have a warm handover. Six months prior to your release, you should have all your disability claims filed. You should have all your appointments done. You should just go to the military audiologist instead of trying to find a random one in a new city that you haven't lived in before.

With those six months, you can set a veteran up for success and do a warm handover so that there's less sanctuary trauma and they already have all their benefits in place. Then they're not meant to do the uphill climb alone. They have the entire system of the military helping them.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Airdrie—Cochrane, AB]

Great.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marie-France Lalonde]

I'd like to thank each and every one of you.

Mrs. Hirtle, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Alana Hirtle, Liberal, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Going back to Le Sentier, of your four centres, I understand that the Dorval location has housing available. I'm sure you're familiar with the organization VETS Canada. They're looking to create a similar treatment centre in my riding at a surplus armoury in Amherst.

I'd like to learn a little bit more about your housing. Can you describe how the housing works? Is it temporary? Is it after a treatment? Is it for a longer duration? Let's start with that.

[Chloé Deraiche]

Yes, they are transitional apartments, so temporary housing. We work with partners on the ground who identify homeless veterans or veterans with severe housing insecurity, in homeless shelters, for example, and they refer them to us. Case managers also refer veterans who need housing.

To stay in our transition apartments, veterans need to be somewhat stable because we don't currently offer services 24 hours a day, seven days a week. These are apartments, so users need to be able to buy groceries and meet their needs. They must therefore have a certain amount of autonomy.

We try to offer four- to six-month stays. We can be creative and extend the length of a stay a bit, if necessary. Our statistics for the past two years show that, at the end of their stay, the vast majority of users are able to occupy permanent housing. So it's really worthwhile. It's important to have some stability.

One veteran's story comes to mind. He lived on a military base, and he was medically discharged from the forces, which he had trouble accepting. He was very much in mourning for the military. He couldn't believe that he'd been discharged from the Armed Forces. One day, he was told that a truck would be there the next day to take out his furniture and that he had to vacate. So he was referred to our organization, and he spent a year with us.

During that time, he was able to get psychological services and support to approach Veterans Affairs Canada. We were there, navigating the online platform with him, to see how it was going to go. After that, he was able to get a permanent apartment. He was also able to have his son visit at home. It started with visitation rights, and then he was able to get weekend visitation and eventually, longer visits. After that, he was able to find an apartment closer to his child's mother, and then he got shared custody.

We see success stories like that every year. It makes us happy. We're seeing positive impacts that speak for themselves. That's why we keep on doing what we do.

This summer, we also took on a recreation worker at our shelter. We can really see they're having a positive impact. Veterans are learning how to have fun again. They learn how to do small activities, such as going to the park, taking a walk or cooking in the community kitchen. It's about learning how to have fun in life again.

[Alana Hirtle, Liberal, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

That all sounds wonderful. Is there a large demand for that housing?

[Chloé Deraiche]

Right now, we have 15 units. We have bachelor, one-bedroom and and two-bedroom apartments. We have no vacancies. That's a good problem to have, because in the beginning, we had to raise awareness of our services. Now, word of mouth has worked well.

With turnover, we're able to accommodate about 30 veterans a year.

[Alana Hirtle, Liberal, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Thank you.

A number of you mentioned the Legion in your testimony this morning. I'm an active member of my local Legion.

Dr. Brend, in your experience, how does peer support help in the case of crisis and/or prevention?

[Dr. Denise M. Brend]

Peer support is one of the most effective ways we can help people who have experienced trauma. As we've heard before, the lived experience to be shared is something you really cannot learn. You have to have been through it.

Again, our veteran community is one of our greatest resources for our veterans. Our research is very clear. When we look at treatments for trauma and preventive efforts, peer support is number one. Social support is second. In the causes of traumatization, first is the gravity of the trauma and second is an absence of social support. It's very important.

[Alana Hirtle, Liberal, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Thank you so much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marie-France Lalonde]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Gaudreau, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Ms. Deraiche, organizations like yours save lives. In fact, I just remembered something. At a previous meeting, we heard from a veteran named Marie‑Noël.

She thanked a certain Chloé. Did she receive services from you?

[Chloé Deraiche]

I'm bound by confidentiality on this, but my name is Chloé.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Let's talk about women veterans and military sexual trauma.

Is there a difference between that type of trauma and something called “sanctuary trauma”?

[Chloé Deraiche]

We've certainly heard a lot about the fact women who have been sexually assaulted didn't think the enemy could come from within, or that the enemy could be their own colleagues. That's an extremely difficult reality. I think we need to create spaces where this can be heard safely, by preparing ahead of time. That's part of our reality.

Last year, if I'm not mistaken, 20% of our clientele were women, a little more than what we currently see in the army, which is 16%. The vast majority of them requested help with psychosocial follow-up in connection with sexual assault. That's very much an important reality.

This leads us to have to train our workers on this reality and create partnerships, particularly with crime victim assistance centres, or CAVACs, and rape crisis centres, or CALACSs.

It also pushes us to find a way to train our workers so that they can provide services to these women without exposing them to a risk of triggering trauma at home.

We have to make sure that we properly support these women, that we don't revictimize them, as was mentioned. We have to give them the help they need and use as many tools as possible.

We should definitely think about that.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

For the benefit of our analyst, who has to compile everything, I'd simply like to ask you to provide us with documentation on your testimony and send us recommendations. This is extremely important, because we're going to talk about it in our report.

We therefore invite you to stay in touch with us.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marie-France Lalonde]

Thank you very much, Ms. Gaudreau.

We had numerous individuals coming in front of us. I really appreciated the engagement today, and

We're grateful to them for that.

Mr. La Salle, thank you for your service. Thank you for coming today, and sharing your perspective and, certainly, the challenges you have faced. I'm very sorry, but I'm glad you're here, and that you were able to share that with us today. Thank you for your service, sir.

Constable Dale, I spent five years as a provincial member and as solicitor general of Ontario.Thank you for what you're doing every day, but also for your service to our country, and, certainly, for challenging our system and doing it even better.

Thank you, Mr. Dale, for being with us.

Lieutenant-colonel Plourde, I'll say this on behalf of all of us here.

We've had some great conversations here. It was done with a lot of candour and a lot of transparency. There were a few words that may not have been too parliamentary, but I'd like to thank you for taking the time to come and share your story with us, for being so direct with us. Thank you for your service to our country.

Lieutenant Colonel Plourde, thank you very much.

Dr. Brend, thank you very much for the work you do. I had the pleasure of practising social work in my former life and helping individuals. Thank you for the work you're doing.

Ms. Deraiche, thank you for being so passionate and dedicated to your work. I understand that we will absolutely have to find a way to promote your services, even though your organization is currently operating at full capacity. Thank you for taking the time to come and meet with us.

To all of you, I know we're heading into the holiday season. We usually start around December 1. However, I will not see you, so I wish you the very best.

Merry Christmas and happy holidays.

I wish you a happy 2026.

Therefore, the witnesses' testimony is complete.

Ms. Gaudreau, would you like to speak?

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Madam Chair, I counted this morning, and this is our 10th meeting. At the last meeting, I proposed a project. We have another study coming up, and I'm thinking of our esteemed analyst, who we want to give some work to.

Honestly, for me, what the witnesses have told us has given me everything I need. If we don't write a report with recommendations, continuing to hear testimony would be overkill. You may feel it, and I don't want to cry, but that's enough for me. I made a heartfelt plea today.

I think we have everything we need, because we're hearing the same things over and over at every meeting.

We need to draft a report and make recommendations. We have two projects on the table, one on entrepreneurship or the employability of our veterans, and the other on Lifemark Health Group interventions.

I understand that Mr. Richards' motion called for at least 10 meetings. However, I'm telling you, unless our analyst says we don't have enough information, I think we really have everything we need to do something. I have more information than I need.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marie-France Lalonde]

I would therefore like to ask the committee whether we agree with Ms. Gaudreau's proposal to end our study.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Airdrie—Cochrane, AB]

It's my understanding, and correct me if I'm wrong, that we have the minister here on Tuesday, and then my understanding is that we have witnesses already—I've heard from one of them who said he was coming—planned for Thursday next week on this study. My understanding was that it was the last meeting we planned for this study other than to give drafting instructions.

I would strongly suggest that I don't know what harm there would be in having.... I still think there are many people who would like to tell their story. I don't know if I agree, and it sounds like I may not be in the majority here, but we do have one meeting that's planned, and we do have witnesses who are booked, so I would strongly recommend that we not cancel those witnesses and that we proceed with the one meeting. I could certainly live with that being the conclusion, and I don't think we should be cancelling the witnesses we have for next week.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marie-France Lalonde]

Ms. Gaudreau, you have the floor.