Veterans Affairs Committee on Dec. 4th, 2025

[The Chair, Liberal, Marie-France Lalonde]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 17 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Veterans Affairs.

The committee is meeting as part of its study on suicide prevention among veterans.

Before we welcome our witnesses, for people who are viewing I would like to provide a trigger warning. We will be discussing experiences related to suicide and grief. This may be triggering to viewers with similar experiences.

For members of Parliament, it is important to recognize that these are difficult discussions.

Also, for our witnesses, if you do not feel comfortable at any point, please let us know. We can pause our committee for you.

To ensure that the meeting goes smoothly, I would like to outline a few rules for the witnesses and members.

Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. If you are on the video conference, please click on the microphone icon to unmute yourself. Please mute your mic when you are not speaking.

For those on Zoom, at the bottom of your screen you can select the appropriate channel for interpretation: floor, English or French. For those in the room, you can use the earpiece and select the desired channel.

A reminder that all comments by members and witnesses should be addressed through the chair.

I will now introduce our witnesses: as an individual, Mr. James Grant, emergency medical responder; and from the Centre for Addiction and Mental Health, Dr. Allison Crawford, psychiatrist and chief medical officer for 988, the suicide crisis helpline, who is joining us through video conference. From the Veteran Hunters Canada, we have Mr. Todd Hisey, chief executive officer and founder; and from the Dallaire Institute for Children, Peace and Security, Dr. Shelly Whitman, executive director, and Kathryn Reeves.

Each witness and each organization represented at this meeting will be given five minutes for delivering their opening remarks. Once all witnesses have spoken, we will proceed to a round of questions with the members of the committee.

Mr. James Grant, the floor is yours for five minutes.

[James Grant, Emergency Medical Responder, As an Individual]

Good morning. Thank you for inviting me.

I served just three years in the Canadian Army and was given a 3B medical release for a serious injury sustained while on course. The incident report was written up and became the basis of what I consider to be a life sentence of “delay, deny and hope you will die”. The premise of this is founded upon the impact of the new veterans charter from 2005, which created two classes of veterans, and in how VAC has chosen to implement the charter, with very little oversight or accountability, resulting in repeated human rights violations.

This horrible mistreatment we face from Veterans Affairs, which is sometimes malicious in nature, is by far the single greatest preventable factor in undermining the mental health of veterans who have been medically released. Of my own mental health struggles, 90% are caused by the Veterans Affairs Canada system and its consistent human rights violations that the charter seems to facilitate. There's a total lack of accountability when Veterans Affairs staff make asinine decisions that greatly complicate our lives and violate our rights.

I believe the Veterans Affairs system is broken and needs immediate effort to change its internal culture to do better to support those veterans whose mental health issues have taken them to consider suicide as a method of resolving that pain. For me, the two greatest factors in preventing my own suicidality are the fact that I'm a single parent of a 17-year-old and that I have a dog. He is not a service dog, due to some bureaucratic technicalities, but he nevertheless upholds that position as my honorary service dog.

This serious issue of therapy dog versus service dog is one of the many examples of the intransigence demonstrated by Veterans Affairs. This has caused serious consequences that I have to live with but that Veterans Affairs doesn't have to live with. My dog is now too old to be trained as a service animal. VAC is completely apathetic about its own problem, which it has caused by these delays.

Please explain to me why my rights as a veteran are subject to the political whims of whoever happens to be in government versus what the spirit of the applicable legislation compels government to do for those who have served this country honourably. Make no mistake: Veterans are the most marginalized people in our society. We are the only people who can have our rights trampled on, and have had our rights trampled on, repeatedly, with no political consequences. We are a G7 country, yet to us, it appears the government is more concerned about providing aid to third world countries than helping those who served this country in conflict zones, experiencing death and destruction and returning home changed, hurt and seeking assistance, only to receive Veterans Affairs' methodology of delay, deny and hope you will die.

When we believe Canadian people could not care less about our veterans.... The government and the ministry of veterans affairs have no respect for our rights, making us feel forgotten and defeated. We're not defeated by our enemies. We're defeated by our own government, which authorized those deployments. This manifests itself in an increased desire to end that pain. The easiest way to end that pain is, for an increasing number, through suicide.

Lieutenant-Colonel John McCrae wrote this message in his poem In Flanders Fields: “If ye break faith with us who die”. It's a message VAC routinely tramples on by its own policies and approach to dealing with veterans. It is a broken faith between Canada and its warriors, both past and present. The final line includes, “We shall not sleep”. This shows that the government serves as a major disgrace to the memory of the 118,000 Canadians who paid the ultimate sacrifice for our country.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marie-France Lalonde]

Thank you very much, Mr. Grant. Thank you for your service, sir, and your courage in being here this morning.

I would now like to invite Dr. Allison Crawford, who's joining us by video conference, to go ahead, please, for five minutes.

[Allison Crawford, Psychiatrist and Chief Medical Officer, 988 Suicide Crisis Helpline, Centre for Addiction and Mental Health]

Thank you very much.

Thank you for the invitation to appear as an expert witness in your study of suicide prevention amongst veterans.

I'm the chief medical officer for the 988 Suicide Crisis Helpline, the national crisis line for anyone in Canada who's thinking of suicide or worried about someone they know. The 988 helpline is funded by the Government of Canada and administered by CAMH. Calls and texts are answered by trained responders based at nearly 40 crisis line partners across the country. The service is available 365 days a year, 24-7, by phone or text in English and French.

The 988 helpline provides easy access to life-saving support for anyone experiencing a suicide-related crisis, no matter where they are in Canada. Since its launch two years ago, in November 2023, 988 responders have spent over 18.5 million minutes answering calls and texts in which they assess for suicide risk, listen with compassion and help the person on the other end of the line find ways to cope and keep themselves safe.

To ensure that anyone who needs help knows where to call, we've also been promoting 988 across Canada, and awareness of the service continues to grow.

In addition to the federal government and partners who deliver the service, we've worked closely with provincial and territorial governments on 988 since before the launch. We've also engaged and collaborated with people from a number of priority populations to inform the development and delivery of the service, including how we train responders.

Anyone who calls 988 can access specialized support. For those under 18 years of age or for first nations, Inuit and Métis, they have the option to select specialized service that will connect them with one of our partners who support suicide prevention in those populations.

Our work on 988 is aligned with the federal framework for suicide prevention. What I want to do is just briefly outline how 988 might relate to the mental health and suicide prevention needs of veterans.

First, although we don't have a formal integration with Veterans Affairs, since 988 launched in November 2023, we've documented 345 calls and texts from veterans. That's likely a significant underestimate, since callers and texters are free to share as much or as little of their personal identification as they wish.

The second thing I want to touch upon is what we can learn from 988 and veterans crisis line services in the United States. In the U.S., the Veterans Crisis Line is the dedicated support for veterans. That has been connected to the 988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline, which is the U.S. version of 988, since 2022. Veterans can dial a special 988-1 veteran extension to specifically reach out to the veterans crisis line for help. That service provides mental health and suicide prevention support to veterans and their families and can connect the caller with local resources, including specific supports and health benefits for veterans.

The veterans crisis line in the U.S. has had about 3.8 million interactions—calls, texts and chats—from 2021 to 2024. That's about 2,600 interactions each day. That volume has increased each year, with a 30% growth over the last three years. It's the integration with the 988 service that's responsible for a large proportion of that growth.

More than 1,000 crisis responders are required to meet that need in the United States. Responders are trained in crisis intervention and military culture, with unique needs identified for female veterans and culturally diverse veterans. Evaluation of the service has demonstrated an impact on engaging veterans in mental health services, on increasing uptake of means safety precautions and on reducing distress.

In conclusion, given the suicide prevention and crisis needs of veterans, 988 presents an opportunity for strengthening suicide prevention supports for veterans. We know that veterans are already accessing the 988 service. We've also identified training needs for 988 responders to provide support that is affirming of military cultures. Work undertaken in the U.S. in partnership between 988 and the U.S. veterans crisis line, I think, demonstrates the real potential of collaboration here in Canada.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marie-France Lalonde]

Thank you very much, Dr. Crawford.

We will now invite, from The Veteran Hunters Canada, Mr. Todd Hisey, chief executive officer and founder.

[Todd Hisey, Chief Executive Officer and Founder, The Veteran Hunters Canada Ltd.]

Good morning. My sincere thanks to the members of the Standing Committee on Veterans Affairs for inviting me to speak today.

Suicide prevention is at the crux of what The Veteran Hunters was designed to do. In order to tell the story of The Veteran Hunters, I must first take you on my mental health journey.

I'm a graduate of the Royal Military College and served as an infantry officer with the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry from 1991 to 2001 and then again from 2007 to 2013. I have deployed three times overseas, to Bosnia, Kosovo and Russia.

My post-traumatic stress injury from my Kosovo tour in 1999 was diagnosed in 2001 by a Canadian Armed Forces medical officer as part of my voluntary release process, but it was kept hidden from me for 15 years, as this portion of my medical records was redacted.

It was also while awaiting my voluntary release that I contemplated suicide. I continued to feel alone, unappreciated for my 10 years of service and multiple deployments, my skill set underutilized. I was disconnected, abandoned and betrayed by my fellow officers and the chain of command. I barely received a mention at morning coffee on my last day of service in 2001.

Over the next five years, while trying to work as a civilian and as a reservist, I was passionately frustrated and continued to feel alone, abandoned and betrayed by my co-workers. In those five years, I worked for five different oil and gas companies.

An unfortunate side effect from my going untreated for 11 years is that my three children all have generational trauma.

Thankfully, God had other plans for me. In 2007, I returned to full-time service with the Canadian Army and served again in various roles until my voluntary release in 2013.

I entered treatment for my post-traumatic stress injury in 2012, but it was not until 2016 that my medical records were unredacted and I was given a retroactive medical release. From 2012 to 2018, I proceeded to complete six years of treatment and a Master of Science degree, and was eventually placed on DEC because of the severity of my PTSI.

While in treatment, I did not have another veteran to walk with me through my journey. I had my wife, my parents, my church, my psychologist, but no veteran whom I could call my brother. I sought solace in nature and began to hunt again, taking up bow hunting, as I found it reinforced the grounding and mindfulness techniques I was learning at the OSI clinic. Being outdoors and hunting helped me immensely, as I began to use the same skills I had learned to hunt another human, but now I was hunting a far superior animal, elk.

I once again felt that I had purpose and meaning. It didn't matter whether I harvested an animal; it was all about the experience outdoors. The scientific term for what I was feeling is urgent biophilia, the innate instinct for humans to seek out nature in times of crisis.

It was upon being placed on DEC in 2018 and at the suggestion of the OSI clinicians that I volunteer my time that my wife Patricia and I decided to start The Veteran Hunters to help other veterans through their mental health journey. The name The Veteran Hunters has a dual meaning, as we are actively hunting for veterans, to connect them with their brothers and sisters.

The Veteran Hunters Canada Limited is a non-profit, all-volunteer organization comprised of hosts who are retired Canadian Armed Forces veterans and first responders, who themselves have gone through their own mental health journeys. Our goal is to serve our fellow veterans, military members, first responders and spouses by providing peer support and therapy and building community through hunting and fishing. We are the only organization of our kind in Canada, not only for the means of therapy we use, but also for the fact that all of our participants are led by a peer—either a veteran or a first responder who has experienced similar trauma and has been on the same mental health journey.

Since 2019 we have put over 435 participants in the field, with volunteers today in seven provinces, as well as a ladies-specific program that includes spouses. We receive no government funding for our four outdoor programs, nor for our 12-week, faith-based reboot trauma recovery program for veterans, first responders and their families.

We are also resourced with chaplains who are church pastors and support us and our members as they need to. Our chaplains are better resourced and more responsive to the needs of veterans than VAC. Additionally, we assist veterans in navigating Veterans Affairs, ensuring they have awareness of the benefits available to them and encouraging them to persevere through the process.

Unfortunately, I am expertly skilled to assist veterans in finding their way through Veterans Affairs. I spent an initial six years in treatment while simultaneously completing a Master of Science as part of my rehabilitation and retraining program. I have attended three hearings for physical injuries and endured 15 years before being treated for my post-traumatic stress. I have undergone an extensive, multi-year DND administrative review and ministerial for a change of release from the Canadian Armed Forces to a medical release. Most recently, I've had five years of trying to get my DEC pay rates corrected, as I was being underpaid. This required ministerial intervention and resulted in two more years of additional therapy.

How many Canadians do you know who could endure this much, especially when it takes, on average, eight years before a veteran is ready to acknowledge that they need help? Without a community supporting them, no one could. Building community, as we at The Veteran Hunters are, is one solution to suicide prevention in veterans and first responders.

In Matthew 22:37-39, Jesus said:

“You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.” This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: “You shall love your neighbour as yourself.”

Our focus is clear: Follow the commandment set forth in these verses and build community by loving our brothers and sisters. When we build community, veterans and first responders feel loved, appreciated and cared for. They have purpose and meaning again, and they will not feel the loneliness and be plagued by evil thoughts to commit suicide.

Sebastian Junger, war correspondent and author of Tribe, remarked in “Why veterans miss war” that Afghanistan veterans didn't miss combat; they missed being part of something bigger. It's knowing you matter and mattering to the brothers around you.

That's what we provide at The Veteran Hunters. We connect, empower and love.

If you are serious about suicide prevention, you need to immediately change the culture in VAC. It's a culture that, over the last few years, has far too often promoted MAID to veterans who are simply asking for help. In September of this year, someone associated with our organization was offered MAID by their case manager. This is unacceptable.

Additionally, rapid advancement of claim processing using AI needs to be implemented. Lastly, VAC needs to provide more support to veterans food banks and the services they offer.

In closing, the willingness with which our young people are likely to serve in any war, no matter how justified, is directly proportional to how they perceive that the veterans of earlier wars were treated and appreciated by their nation.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marie-France Lalonde]

Thank you very much, Mr. Hisey.

On behalf of all of us, thank you for your service and for everything that you're doing in helping our veterans community.

I would like now to turn over the floor for five minutes to Dr. Shelly Whitman and Kathryn Reeves from the Dallaire Institute for Children, Peace and Security.

[Shelly Whitman, Executive Director, Dallaire Institute for Children, Peace and Security]

Good morning. Thank you very much for this opportunity to speak to all of you today. I want to especially thank my co-panellists for their service as well. Also, I'd like to thank MP Wagantall for the opportunity to be here today.

Canada's veterans are experiencing high levels of psychological distress and suicide risk. A major contributor is moral injury. This remains insufficiently understood or addressed within CAF and VAC systems. Moral injury is not limited to institutional betrayal. It is also an operational risk, especially during deployments where CAF personnel encounter children in armed conflict.

Our organization was founded by Lieutenant-General (Retired) Roméo Dallaire, former UN force commander of the assistance mission for Rwanda from 1993 to 1994.

He confronted the unthinkable—children recruited and used to commit atrocities. General Dallaire suffered moral and operational stress injuries that led to his own personal challenges with suicide ideation. The Dallaire Institute is a result of his lifelong commitment to destigmatize mental health disorders among veterans and end the recruitment and use of children worldwide.

Our organization adopts a dual-lens approach to this mandate by prioritizing the protection of children while also understanding the significant operational impacts upon defence and security sector actors.

Moral injury emerges when personnel face events that violate deeply held beliefs about what is right and wrong, identity and duty. Encounters with children create a profound moral conflict that persists long after deployment. Moral injury is distinct from PTSD, but the two are interconnected. It often presents as guilt, shame, existential distress, loss of trust and social withdrawal. Persistent moral injury without support is strongly associated with increased suicide risk.

While our research focuses on moral injury stemming from encounters with children, the findings we hope to share today are important for the wider prevalence of moral injury among service members and veterans and for the wider prevention of suicide.

The impacts of moral injury often extend to family members, who report noticing moral injury-related changes as soon as their loved ones return home. This often leaves family members carrying additional burdens and becoming responsible for organizing the care and support of the veterans. This includes the children of those veterans.

Children of morally injured veterans have shared statements such as, “The longer he was home, the more sick he became.” They have expressed a deep lack of support for themselves and a desire to have support from Veterans Affairs Canada for themselves as well.

Veterans across trades report receiving no meaningful training on how to interact with children in armed conflict—no scenarios, no doctrine, no guidance on rules of engagement or cultural context. CAF members consistently described entering operations blind to the complexity of child involvement in conflict, leading to preventable psychological harm.

Encounters with children occur in every type of deployment, not only in combat. From engineers to medics, MPs and padres, all describe significant exposure, and this is despite Canada's being a co-collaborator in 2017 of the Vancouver principles on peacekeeping and the prevention of the recruitment and use of child soldiers. Our inconsistency domestically to ensure that we practise what we preach globally is a challenge. Veterans are frequently unaware of the supports made available to them after release, especially in cases of moral injury, which are often less understood or recognized.

Moral injury is not simply an individual veteran's problem. It is a systemic issue. Veterans participating in our research articulated thoughts such as, “I'm not broken. I was part of a system that failed to protect me.” As other witnesses have discussed, a whole-of-system approach is needed for both moral injury support and suicide prevention. If active service members are unaware of moral injury as an operational risk of their deployment, the knowledge and support gap often carries over to life after service.

Suicide prevention is a complex endeavour that requires sustained collaboration between CAF, DND and VAC to ensure support across veterans' and their families' lives during and after service. We also reiterate other witnesses' calls for meaningful peer-to-peer support to occur.

Research funding is not an optional issue. There are significant research gaps in tracking exposure to children in armed conflict, moral injury diagnosis and treatment, long-term mental health impacts on families, and effective training and policy models. Therefore, VAC-funded research is an essential avenue to fill these gaps and must be sustained. However, the important piece is that effective knowledge mobilization is the key to real and sustained change.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marie-France Lalonde]

Thank you very much, Mrs. Whitman.

On this, we will open the floor for questions. Each of the members will have six minutes. Unfortunately, if they pass that time, I will have to interrupt, so I just want to prepare our witnesses and our members of Parliament.

Mr. Richards, go ahead for six minutes, please.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Airdrie—Cochrane, AB]

Thanks.

To our veterans with us today, thank you for your service.

I'll start with you, Mr. Hisey. You mentioned that someone involved in your program was offered, by a caseworker at Veterans Affairs, MAID in September of this year.

[Todd Hisey]

That is correct. It was in September of this year.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Airdrie—Cochrane, AB]

The government claims that it put a stop to this about three years ago, and that there were only four veterans it occurred to. Do you believe that? I mean, clearly, there was one in September of this year, so it can't be accurate, can it?

[Todd Hisey]

In addition to this one, I'm aware of probably six other veterans across the country who have been offered MAID. One I'm aware of, in Newfoundland, accepted MAID on the condition that he receive $300,000 for his family on his passing. Another one of my participants attended that funeral. We keep notes and record all our conversations with VAC, because we have to protect ourselves.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Airdrie—Cochrane, AB]

These people weren't seeking or interested in MAID: They were interested in...help to live their lives.

[Todd Hisey]

Exactly. One participant in our program who came forward to me—who told me about the event in September—was just calling to have a discussion with her case manager about ongoing treatment. Now it's at the point where that person does not trust Veterans Affairs and is seeking assistance through our chaplain's program within our own organization.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Airdrie—Cochrane, AB]

Well, it's...I'll just use the word “sad” that this is occurring. I hope that, through what's been heard here today and other witnesses to this, the government will finally admit that this hasn't been put to a stop, get an independent investigation going, and get it solved and stopped once and for all. Thank you for highlighting that.

Mr. Grant, you mentioned some technicalities that you had in terms of being able to have your trauma dog, or therapy dog—whatever you want to call it—considered a service dog. Is it government bureaucracy that's a challenge? What's the technicality?

[James Grant]

The issue was more that I sought out the BC SPCA to adopt my dog, and then I went to Veterans Affairs and asked about the types of assistance, how...and the logistics behind that.

At the time, I had not yet been diagnosed with PTSD, so that was an obvious barrier. Then, once that did happen, only two years later...the delays, the denials. By the time the conversation turned into, “Yes, we can possibly do this,” well, now my dog is in the latter stage of its life, so what's the point?

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Airdrie—Cochrane, AB]

I get it. This really does come down to the delays and denials that we often hear about from veterans. I'm sorry to hear that. It should be a lot easier to get the help, services and supports you need.

To turn to Dr. Crawford, I think it was you who said that 345 veterans have utilized your service since 988 began. I assume there's a need for more veteran-specific resources, but I also am well aware that there are many of what I'll call “peer support” types of programs out there. Boots on the Ground is an example of that.

We often hear from veterans that the need to have someone who understands what they're dealing with.... We can teach someone cultural competencies to an extent, but, obviously, if they can work with someone who's been through what they've been through, it's the best way we can do it.

What are your thoughts on that? Do you think that better partnerships with organizations that are already doing these things in terms of peer support, ensuring that the resources are there, people who have actually dealt with the same things that those who are calling have dealt with...?

[Allison Crawford]

I do, absolutely. I think we need multiple sources of support. Probably most importantly, we need collaboration and integration across those resources.

We know that 988 is listed on the veterans mental health portion of the Government of Canada website in a large yellow box, and we know that some veterans are being directed there. When they call or text 988, they have the option of providing information. We know that 345 people have offered information, but probably many other people have called and have not offered that.

Around peer support, we've also done pilot work. We worked a lot with Public Safety personnel, people who did not include military or veterans, and we have quite successfully collaborated with Boots on the Ground and other partners that offer peer support, so I think there are ways that services can be joined together to provide a full range of supports.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Airdrie—Cochrane, AB]

Would encouraging more of that be a good recommendation from this committee?

[Allison Crawford]

Definitely encouraging more collaboration would be good, and also individual choice. Different people, for various reasons, may want a peer provider, while others may not, so I think choice is also important, but it's also being able to access that at a single source so that people aren't bumping around websites or having to go to multiple areas for support.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Airdrie—Cochrane, AB]

Yes, that's great. I appreciate that.

I don't have much time left, but I'll give as much as I can to the two of you who mentioned the need for more supports for families, Mr. Hisey and Dr. Whitman.

Really briefly, can you give us your thoughts on that and what's needed there?

I'm sorry. I wish there was more time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marie-France Lalonde]

You have 10 seconds, sir.

[Todd Hisey]

Yes, I can speak especially with regard to generational trauma.

I was diagnosed with moral injuries and went undiagnosed for a number of years, and my children have aspects of post-traumatic stress as a result of that, so yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marie-France Lalonde]

Thank you very much, Mr. Hisey and Mr. Richards.

There'll be another round of questions. That's the good news.

Go ahead, Mr. Casey, for six minutes.