Evidence of meeting #23 for Veterans Affairs in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was businesses.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Members speaking

Before the committee

Brulotte  As an Individual
Merrill  Remotely Piloted Aircraft System Instructor and Flight Reviewer, Veterans Elite Drone Training Services Inc.
Coleman  Director, Honour House Society
Leboeuf  As an Individual
Potapenko  As an Individual
Hennebery  Chief Warrant Officer, Veterans Artist Collective

5:20 p.m.

Director, Honour House Society

Richard Coleman

First of all, we should understand that most new businesses fail at a higher percentage than franchise businesses do in Canada. That's because the tried-and-true model of the marketing, the advertising campaign and the discipline in how the business is run is already written up for the person who's going into the business.

I say to people that we'll take a look at an oil change business, for example, and we'll look at a franchise agreement. If you want to be on your own, this is the type of model you should seek out if you don't want to franchise. The franchising piece is basically this: You know what you need to put up; you know what you get for service; and you know you have somebody to support you in the marketing of the business. If you're a person with discipline who can follow the rules in a franchise, like a member of the military who has the training in being disciplined, is on time and is prepared to work hard—because any franchise or any business is a lot of work—a franchise opportunity is much more ideally suited to you, and to most people, to enter into your first business.

Having said that, it would be beneficial if the Canadian Franchise Association, which has trade shows on franchising and what have you, was in a relationship with the Canadian Armed Forces and said, “Look, we have all of these different franchises. We know which ones are successful.” It could be a food service. It could be an automotive service. They franchise just about everything today in some way or another. You can learn an awful lot from it. If you had that relationship, you could ask, “Would you take the time to give us, as the military, a franchise show at our bases to show our veterans who will be moving on what the opportunities are in business through a franchise?”

They're easier to finance. You can actually attract investors to it, because they see the discipline as well. It can work very well.

Sean Casey Liberal Charlottetown, PE

You also mentioned the value of mentorship, and that's something we've heard from several of our guests over the course of this study, including Dr. Brulotte today.

I can tell you that where I come from, in Prince Edward Island, we have something through the chamber of commerce for new immigrants called the connectors program.

Could you talk a bit about what a formalized mentorship program would look like for veterans? What would be the key elements of that?

5:20 p.m.

Director, Honour House Society

Richard Coleman

You have a remarkable resource out there. There are people who have served in the military who I think would be glad to mentor a new business entrant simply because of their relationship with the military. You have the same thing happening with other things, like law enforcement. We all want to give back. Most of us want to give back to business or what have you. To give back means you start a mentorship program and ask if people would be prepared to mentor.

I don't charge any fees for anybody I mentor. I give them the time, because I believe they need to have the opportunity and somebody to talk to. That mentorship can be the simplest little thing about where you can access parts or whatever. They ask, “How could I find this thing?” You can make a few phone calls if you've been around in the business world and get that answer for a new business person who's seeking it out.

It's really about saying, “Why don't we start a mentorship program?” You could liken it, if you want, to examples like Big Brothers Big Sisters, where somebody mentors a child, brings them along and gives them some help in their life to be successful. It's no different.

The people I know—I have a number of folks to whom I will send people to get advice—really enjoy sitting down with a young, disciplined business person, whether they be military or non-military, and sharing some of their successes or information to help them be successful. You could have a program like that too.

The Chair Liberal Marie-France Lalonde

Thank you very much, Mr. Coleman.

This concludes our first round.

I want to say thanks to all of our witnesses.

I thank them for their service to our country.

Before we start round two, I would like to read a motion to adopt from our subcommittee. I will make sure that I read it properly.

I would now like to ask the committee whether it is ready to adopt the second report of our Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure. This report was distributed to committee members earlier today.

Is it the will of the committee to adopt this report?

(Report adopted [See Minutes of Proceedings])

Sean Casey Liberal Charlottetown, PE

Thank you.

That's very helpful.

The Chair Liberal Marie-France Lalonde

We'll suspend. Then we'll have our second panel.

Once again, thank you to all the witnesses who took part in the meeting in the first hour.

The Chair Liberal Marie-France Lalonde

Welcome, everyone.

I would like to make a few comments for the benefit of our new witnesses.

It's a pleasure to have you here.

One reminder is to please wait until I recognize you by name before speaking. For those of you in the room, please use interpretation. You can use the earpiece and select the desired channel using the device in front of you.

Another reminder is that all comments should be addressed through the chair. I am the clock keeper. That means I may have to interrupt you, so I apologize in advance.

On behalf of our committee, I would like to welcome, as an individual, Mr. Kevin Leboeuf. Also as an individual, we have Mr. Grigori Potapenko. From the Veterans Artist Collective, we have Mr. Christopher Hennebery, chief warrant officer.

Thank you to you all for your service.

We will be starting a round of five minutes with opening remarks.

Mr. Lebœuf, you have the floor for five minutes.

Kevin Leboeuf As an Individual

Madam Chair, members of the committee, it's an honour to be with you this evening to share my story.

I never thought that getting shot at or mortared, taking cover or getting blown up by an IED would ever lead to becoming an entrepreneur. As soldiers, we have to make quick decisions that are necessary for the survival of self and of our section. Those decision-making skills are not taught. They're lived. They're experienced. They are forged in moments when hesitation can cost lives.

My name is Kevin Leboeuf, co-founder of Educated Beards, a 100% natural and organic grooming product company, and 9barkmedia, a full-funnel marketing agency.

In 2016, I was diagnosed with PTSD from my 2008–09 mission in Afghanistan, where I was out of the wire daily, searching for bombs and threats. When I was medically released from the Canadian Armed Forces, I lost all purpose. The army was the only thing I knew, and suddenly I no longer had it. I hadn't even finished high school. Self-doubt, fear and worry set in. Suicidal thoughts, ongoing therapy, body aches, trouble sleeping and anxiety.... It's incredibly hard to find a new purpose, a new identity or a new start when everything you knew has been stripped away.

When I got out, I decided to grow a beard for the first time in my life: yay, a freedom beard. It was awful. It was itchy, dry, flaky—many of the symptoms men experience when they don’t know how to take care of their beard. Before giving up, I bought products at the pharmacy and brought them home. My partner in life and in business, Alicia Phillips, has a background in holistic science. She rejected the products immediately because they were full of toxic chemicals. She started making products for me. Friends wanted some, and then friends of friends. That is how Educated Beards was born. Today, we supply multiple countries and hold one of the highest certifications in the world.

What surprised me the most was that taking care of my physical appearance had a massive impact on my mental health. I became less suicidal. The whole thing clicked. I was learning self-care. I had a routine again. I had a mission again. That routine, that structure and that daily discipline gave me purpose when I had none. It would not have been possible to start my business without Alicia. During my transition, we thought that being a veteran would be a great asset; instead, we learned that it was not. We had to restructure our shareholders' agreement. Alicia became the majority shareholder, because women in business had access to benefits, funding opportunities, training, networking and expert support that were simply not available to veterans. Starting a business is hard for anyone, but it became very clear that starting a business as a veteran was an even steeper uphill battle.

From the outside looking in, everything appears great. I was labelled as a successful entrepreneur. In 2023, I was named veteran entrepreneur of the year by Prince's Trust Canada. I had not participated in any of their programs, yet I became a spokesperson of sorts. They brought me to speak at charity events in New York City in front of global celebrities.

Shortly thereafter, Manulife investigated me. They asked for company financials, which showed a loss. I've never taken a salary and have put everything into Educated Beards. My psychologist had clearly stated that a return to work was not advised due to the severity and persistence of my symptoms. That was disregarded, and my benefits were cut off.

These were some of the reasons cited: I'm the co-owner of a company operating in thousands of locations across multiple countries, and I have been a keynote speaker, even earning a best speaker award at a small Fredericton Toastmasters Club. The club met twice a month. It was part of rebuilding my confidence. Because it was used against me, I have not gone back since. I was made to feel ashamed, as if being a disabled veteran means I should sit at home and do nothing.

I feel used. When it's convenient for national organizations to showcase a broken veteran succeeding, it serves their narrative, but when the reality of PTSD—the therapy, the panic, the setbacks—does not fit that narrative, it is ignored or punished.

Veterans have access to $80,000 for retraining, which is a wonderful initiative, but for many of us, traditional school is not possible. Several veterans I know who took part in this program did not complete the program. Meanwhile, financial support is not available for veterans who want to build their businesses—businesses that pay taxes, create jobs and restore purpose.

This is my story. I know there are many more like me. I stand here today with the fear that even this testimony could be used against me, but if we do not speak honestly, nothing will change.

My hope is that the committee will listen—truly listen—and help create a pathway for veterans to continue serving Canada in a post-service capacity. We still want to serve. We just need a system that does not punish us for trying to rebuild our lives.

I believe in veteran entrepreneurs. I believe in our resilience, our discipline and our capacity to contribute. Now, the path is not encouraged. It's not supported. That needs to change.

Thank you.

The Chair Liberal Marie-France Lalonde

Thank you very much, Mr. Leboeuf. Thank you for your service, sir.

I will now invite Mr. Potapenko to speak for five minutes.

Grigori Potapenko As an Individual

Thank you, Madam Chair and members of the committee.

My name is Grigori Potapenko. I am a Canadian Armed Forces veteran and a full-time entrepreneur. I've built several businesses and have acquired one. I've also struggled to build them. Entrepreneurship is hard, and I won't pretend otherwise. In my own case, the biggest barrier has often been me—my decisions, my risk tolerance and my execution. Beyond individual accountability, there are structural factors that either accelerate or constrain outcomes. That's what I'd like to focus on today.

If you strip a business down to its fundamentals, there are really three things—capital, talent and a revenue engine. If you take one away, the business fails. In my experience, and in conversations with other veteran founders in Canada, our veteran entrepreneurship ecosystem struggles precisely in those three areas.

Number one is capital. It is always the primary barrier.

I bootstrapped my businesses off credit cards, and then used the proceeds from one venture to acquire another. My businesses were predominantly asset-light and Internet-based. I could not even consider pursuing opportunities that required significant upfront capital.

Veterans are trained to operate under pressure, manage risk and lead teams, but our current underwriting systems don't necessarily value or reward those signals. If veterans are, as some evidence suggests, a high-probability operator class, then capital should flow accordingly—not as a favour, but as a rational capital allocation.

That leads to a related opportunity. When we talk about entrepreneurship, we often think about start-ups— starting something from scratch, from zero, which is risky. We're missing a massive macroeconomic opportunity. Canada is facing a silver tsunami, a generational transfer of $2 trillion in small and mid-sized businesses. Their owners age out, and thousands of viable companies need successors. At the same time, thousands of CAF members transition out each year. We're not systematically connecting those two transitions.

ETA, or entrepreneurship through acquisition, is buying and operating an existing business. It can be a lower-risk transition pathway than starting from scratch. It also preserves jobs, maintains productive capacity and stabilizes communities.

In the U.S., SBA- and VA-backed loan programs are frequently used for small business acquisitions, including by veterans. In Canada, there isn't a comparable veteran-focused acquisition pathway that I know of.

However, BDC recently launched a special fund to facilitate ETA for women entrepreneurs. That's an excellent initiative. A similar instrument for veteran operators would recognize the same principle. Targeted capital can unlock capable operators. If we are serious about productivity and SME continuity, funding veteran operators and connecting them with retiring business owners is a strategic lever. Once again, it's not preferential treatment; it's matching capability with opportunity.

Number two is talent. If we want veteran entrepreneurs to create jobs, we must reduce friction on their first hire. The jump from solo operator to employer is one of the most difficult transitions in business. Right now, however, our system often punishes veterans for their initiative.

I've spoken with multiple peers, including Kevin here, who were denied their benefits from EI or VAC because they decided to pursue a business instead of traditional employment. We're effectively saying, “We'll help you if you're an employee, but we'll penalize you if you're an employer.” Measures could make a difference, such as a payroll tax holiday for the first hires, a wage subsidy for veteran-owned firms, and simplified federal hiring credits for veteran-owned businesses. Again, these are not special deals; they're growth accelerators applied to a population with demonstrated leadership and operational experience.

Several years ago, there was a program by RBC that subsidized hiring CAF veterans. I used it in my business, and it helped tremendously. Government already provides tax deductions and credits for apprentices, tradespersons and youth employment. Why not include veterans?

Number three is revenue. If Canada wants veteran entrepreneurs to succeed, government procurement is your biggest lever. Government is one of the biggest spenders in the country, but right now procurement is a black box. It's difficult for small firms to navigate. I could never figure it out myself, and lots of others couldn't either. Government procurement should be an economic development tool with mechanisms that recognize veteran-led firms where appropriate—again, not as a favour, but as a strategic allocation.

Finally, one major barrier that I experienced is the data and education gap. I attempted to launch a business on coaching and mentoring for veterans, and I couldn't find any data on the state of Canadian veteran-owned businesses. You cannot manage what you do not measure. If we don't measure it, we cannot design policy and we cannot track outcomes. We can't scale what works.

Why did I want to start the coaching program in the first place? At transition, they don't teach you that it is even an option. It was not presented to me during my transition. Exposure to this should start before release, not at the door.

If we measure properly, align capital intelligently, leverage procurement and reduce early hiring friction, veteran entrepreneurship can move from a niche topic to a meaningful contributor to Canada's productivity.

Thank you.

The Chair Liberal Marie-France Lalonde

Thank you very much, Mr. Potapenko. We really appreciate it.

Now, for five minutes, we'll go to Mr. Hennebery.

Christopher Hennebery Chief Warrant Officer, Veterans Artist Collective

Madam Chair and members of the committee, thank you for the invitation and the opportunity to appear before you today.

My name is Chief Warrant Officer Christopher Hennebery. I have served in the Canadian Armed Forces for nearly 41 years, beginning as a reserve infantry soldier in 1985.

I currently serve as the chief of employer support for western Canada and will conclude my service at the age of 60 in two years. I live in Vancouver with my wife, who is also a veteran, and I am a member of the Métis Nation of Ontario.

In addition to my military career, I have built a parallel life in business and the arts. I completed a master's in IT business administration in 2004 and have founded, owned and sold three companies since 1991. For more than 20 years, I have balanced entrepreneurship with reserve service.

In 2015, after selling my consulting firm, I joined SAP and currently serve as an account executive supporting some of the largest Fortune 50 organizations in North America. My civilian career has taken me into complex global boardrooms, but it was my military service that prepared me to succeed in these environments.

Art has also been a central part of my life. I studied at Emily Carr, and in 2011 I went to Afghanistan as a Canadian war artist. Today, that body of work hangs in galleries, messes and museums across Canada.

During the pandemic, I founded the Veterans Artist Collective, an initiative that focuses on two outcomes.

First, we deliver immersive weekend workshops in disciplines such as plein-air painting, metalsmithing and ceramics for veterans, serving CAF members and RCMP members and their spouses. Over 300 participants from across Canada have attended. Many live with operational stress injuries, depression, anxiety or PTSD. Our goal is to create a positive pathway to mental health through structured creative practice and community.

Second, we provide platforms for veterans to exhibit and sell their work. Our inaugural national exhibition in November 2024 coincided with the lead-up to the Invictus Games in Vancouver. This program exists solely through the generosity of True Patriot Love and the Royal Canadian Legion.

Over the past decade, I have observed something that's pretty concerning. There remains limited flexibility and tolerance for veterans who wish to transition into non-traditional careers, particularly entrepreneurial ones.

In 2014, I was introduced to a medically released soldier from the 3rd Battalion, PPCLI, Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry. Danny was severely injured in an IED attack. He wanted to become a tattoo artist. He had passion but no formal training and no pathway within the existing retraining programs to pursue that goal. We explored whether his education benefits could support foundational training, but his VAC caseworker refused to allocate. Despite setbacks and no formal training, he persisted.

I contacted over 20 tattoo parlours in Vancouver that did not respond. Two actually did, and one owner said that he would have coffee with Danny. He was moved by his story. That coffee turned into a part-time cleaning job in the tattoo parlour, and Danny is now a successful, sought-after tattoo artist with his own business.

My journey was different. My service gave me leadership training, resilience and discipline, qualities that translated directly into entrepreneurial success. I was fortunate to find mentors who helped me interpret my military skill set into business language, but not every veteran is as fortunate.

The more complex the injury, physical or psychological, the more individualized and bespoke the transformation pathway needs to be. Entrepreneurship is a legitimate and powerful transition option for many veterans, yet our systems often default to conventional employment pathways that are not constructed to accommodate non-traditional ambitions.

If we truly believe in lifelong service and meaningful reintegration, then we must create flexible, responsive frameworks that recognize veterans as potential job creators, not only jobseekers. That's my ask. We need to create a more flexible program that allows our veterans to apply for those funds of $80,000, especially the veterans who are suffering from PTSD, as most of the people in my program are, who cannot fit into those traditional models. Not only are we dangling the $80,000 in front of them, but we're telling them they can't have it.

Thank you for your time. I look forward to your questions.

The Chair Liberal Marie-France Lalonde

Thank you very much.

We will now open the floor to Mrs. Wagantall for six minutes.

5:50 p.m.

Conservative

Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK

Thank you very much, Chair.

Thank you to the three of you for what you're bringing to the table today. I appreciate the service that is represented here, as well, on behalf of Canada.

Mr. Leboeuf, I'm very curious. You're very open and honest about the dynamics of not being able to be the face of your business. You needed to transition to having your wife have more of that role in order to be recognized to a certain degree. We have heard from other witnesses very carefully stating that they are veterans, but the funding is more targeted to specific groups such as women, indigenous and Black. That's no problem, but you asked about the veterans. I heard, “What about the veterans?” Veterans are unique, as you've mentioned, and have so much capability and promise.

Is part of the dynamic I'm hearing here to recognize them as veterans to enable them, but at the same time give them the freedom they need to be able to make those choices that are being inhibited from them at this point in time? Is that a fair question?

5:50 p.m.

As an Individual

Kevin Leboeuf

Yes, that's exactly it. In terms of the funding that's available—the $80,000, let's say—I wouldn't say to give the $80,000 right away to the veteran. It would be milestones that you would have to reach, maybe $10,000 to start up.

We own our manufacturing, so we do our production, our videos, selling and everything. We do more than just order products from somewhere and then resell them. It was really hard within that. It's kind of sad because when you're in the military, especially in my job, you're taught to think outside the box a lot of the time, and to be comfortable in the uncomfortable is really a massive thing that is necessary to be a successful entrepreneur. You need to be able to absorb chaos and not spread it within your team. I think that's a massive skill that the veterans really own.

5:50 p.m.

Conservative

Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK

We also heard concerns around the things.... I think it has been mentioned here quite eloquently. The sense with VAC is that if you succeed, it's not only.... Well, in the back of their mind, it must be that you don't need your funds or your care any longer, and it's taken away. What does that say to you, as an individual individual who...? I mean, no matter what else you do with the rest of your life, you were told you would be taken care of when you returned home. Canadians supposedly, we hear, are compassionate and thankful, but this is something that I'm not sure is being handled properly.

5:50 p.m.

As an Individual

Kevin Leboeuf

What's really interesting about that, actually, is that I wouldn't be able to do a job on a daily basis. What's really good about being an entrepreneur is that it's my set schedule; it's not nine-to-five. I do rely on my wife quite a lot to do the majority of the work on a daily basis. She is the CEO, and she does make lots of decisions on everything. I don't have to explain that I'm not coming up for a week or that I'm not doing this. I do therapy, and it's very inflexible. I go to all these appointments on a general basis.

5:50 p.m.

Conservative

Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK

I appreciate hearing that. It's important to this study.

Mr. Potapenko, you mentioned a couple of times the need for support and funding, and you also said that it's not a favour. I think there is that sense within our veteran community—and I do hear this—that if you're capable of doing this, then you shouldn't get special treatment, but everybody who's starting a business needs to be recognized for that potential. Can you elaborate a bit on that?

5:50 p.m.

As an Individual

Grigori Potapenko

Sure. We've been institutionalized or trained to be self-reliant and not to ask for handouts or things of that nature. In fact, I invited several veteran entrepreneurs to this hearing, and the response was, “I built what I built without any help, and that's how it's supposed to be. It's supposed to be hard.” That's fine. That's their opinion. I have a different opinion, so that's why.... I also read the minutes from previous hearings, and there was a phrase that caught my attention about looking for extra recognition versus looking for help. I think that's why veterans are not asking for this as a favour.

5:55 p.m.

Conservative

Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK

They're hesitant to do that.

Mr. Hennebery, I really appreciate what you bring to the table.

It was mentioned here that you can't manage what you cannot measure. I'm still getting used to the fact that I'm a politician, and it's been a decade. You can't manage what you cannot measure, and I see a lot of inability to measure in these circumstances. I think that's part of our challenge here with Veterans Affairs and with this committee.

5:55 p.m.

Chief Warrant Officer, Veterans Artist Collective

Christopher Hennebery

It's not so much managing what you measure. The measurement tools we're using now are cookie-cutter, and they're not flexible. You can't use the same measurement tool for one veteran who served for eight years and comes out of it whole and well as you would for someone who served in an active war zone and comes out with PTSD. It's not the same.

The Chair Liberal Marie-France Lalonde

Thank you very much. I really appreciate it.

I was very polite. I apologize, sir.

Mr. d'Entremont, you have the floor for six minutes.

Chris d'Entremont Liberal Acadie—Annapolis, NS

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Thank you all for your service and for your testimony today.

We are starting to hear some of the same things as the presenters are coming to us and underlining a number of different challenges. Some of them are entrepreneurial in nature. Some of them are very much attached to being a veteran and how you're able to access different programs.

Monsieur Leboeuf, when you set up your business, how did your business match up? I'm going to guess it didn't match at all with what you were actually trained to do in the armed forces. How did the transition not set you up to be able to do the business you ended up setting up? It's kind of a double negative on that one.

5:55 p.m.

As an Individual

Kevin Leboeuf

I was the majority shareholder because, obviously, my wife doesn't have a beard. Beard grooming and shaving products didn't really matter to her. I was going to be the face of the company, so I was the majority shareholder. Every time we asked for something, they said, “Oh, you're a veteran. What schooling do you have? What do you have there?”

Nothing applied the same way on the opposite side. When we changed the shareholder agreement again, which involved more lawyer fees and paperwork, then they said, “Oh, it's for a woman in business. Yes, please come in.” It was a lot easier for us to navigate that way and to get a lot more help.

Chris d'Entremont Liberal Acadie—Annapolis, NS

Were you able to access any VAC programming for that?