Veterans Affairs Committee on June 1st, 2026

[Braedon Clark, Liberal, Sackville—Bedford—Preston, NS]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Lieutenant-Commander, thank you so much for being here today. Thank you for your service.

One of the great advantages of the riding I represent in Nova Scotia is that it has some of the largest and most historic Black communities in the country: North Preston, East Preston, Cherry Brook, Lake Loon, Upper Hammonds Plains and Lucasville. The Black Cultural Centre for Nova Scotia is in my riding as well. Ms. Auguste and I have visited that place. Some of the most moving exhibits at that institution are related to veterans. There's the No. 2 Construction Battalion, the all-Black battalion from the First World War. Also, there is the Victoria Cross that William Hall won in 1857; he was the first Black Canadian to ever receive the Victoria Cross. There's a tremendous history there that I know you're aware of also, sir. I just want to highlight that. It's a little home cooking, but it's very important to me and to our community.

Lieutenant-Commander, “code switching” is a term you mentioned in an earlier response. Can you define that for the record and for the benefit of the committee? What does that term mean, and how might it manifest itself?

[Esrom Tesfamichael]

“Code switching” refers to when an individual must modify the way they bring themselves to a space, the way they speak, the way they dress, the way they interact or the way they communicate in order to fit in. The member for Edmonton West talked about identity and what that means to individuals coming in. That institution has an identity. If your individual self does not speak in that vernacular, does not typically wear those hairstyles or does not do whatever, you have to adapt to it. It's basically finding a way to, despite your own identity, fit into an organization or group.

[Braedon Clark, Liberal, Sackville—Bedford—Preston, NS]

In your opening statement, you talked about the need to focus on outcomes for Black veterans in particular in this case.

As we, as committee members, analyze what VAC and the government are doing, what kinds of outcomes, in your mind, would be most helpful for us to look at so that we can say what is working, what is not or what we can do better? What specific outcomes did you think about when you made that comment earlier?

[Esrom Tesfamichael]

I may have misspoken, but what I meant was that a focus on outcomes exclusively could sometimes blind us to the things that need to happen beforehand. With regard to representation, for example, we want to have a target representation for a group. If that is the main focus, we may not pay enough attention to the things that have to happen in order to get there. Using outcomes, like representation, for example, as indicators after work has been done earlier in the pipeline is, I think, appropriate.

[Braedon Clark, Liberal, Sackville—Bedford—Preston, NS]

I have about a minute and 20 seconds. I want to be on time for everybody.

Earlier, you mentioned something really interesting in terms of communities not being monoliths. I see this in some of the communities I represent. Some of the African Nova Scotian communities have been there for 400 years, and then there are lots of newcomers who might come from other parts of the world, who have been there for maybe five years. The experiences of these two groups obviously are incredibly different.

In your mind, how do you bridge that gap and make sure that whether a Black veteran's roots have been in Canada for 400 years or for four years, they are respected, seen, heard and valued in their own way?

[Esrom Tesfamichael]

At the risk of seeming repetitive, I will go back to my earlier response about the patterns and systems that affect all Black veterans. That would be systemic anti-Black racism.

I recommend looking for vulnerable nodes of decision points or processes that are especially susceptible to the influence of individual racism or systemic racism and finding ways to reinforce those nodes to either create more transparency and accountability or put guardrails on that somewhere, so that if, in fact, there is a force of systemic or individual racism playing on the decision being made, there is a degree of resiliency against that. It's more to find those vulnerable areas and to improve outcomes by making sure there are guardrails, for lack of a better term, or reinforcements against—

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Blake Richards]

We'll have to stop you there, unfortunately. We do have to keep tight on the time here. I think you got to the essence of what you wanted to say.

Ms. Gaudreau for two and a half minutes.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I get the impression that, when it comes to the CAF culture, everything needs to change. When I look at the progress that society has made for women, racialized individuals, Black people and so on, even if it's not 100%, I see that real progress has been achieved.

From listening to testimonies during this study, I get the feeling that people were told it was like this, it's always been like this and they had to toe the line. It's like if nothing ever changed. Today, I feel that we need to open up to others, get to know them, and discover who they are.

Am I wrong in saying that the armed forces is really an organization where you cannot deviate from the rules? It's a very strict sandbox.

Is it still like that or not?

[Esrom Tesfamichael]

In my view, it's no longer like that.

I think that, now, there's a lot of emphasis on inclusion. I'm encouraged whenever I see progress. As I indicated earlier, even if there is progress, things can always be improved. I hope there is room for everyone in the institution. In my opinion, we are moving in this direction.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Okay.

The day we set aside our prejudices and look at people for who they really are before passing judgment, I think we'll make progress and take a big step forward. I hope this will also have a major impact on the Canadian Armed Forces.

Thank you for joining us. It was important.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Blake Richards]

Thank you very much.

Now we have our last two rounds of two and a half minutes each, the first one going to the Conservative party and Madam Wagantall.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.

I hope you can be gracious in response to what I'm going to ask, because it goes with what I've experienced in life.

When we talk about the very diverse national backgrounds of Black people, which is true, that is also true of white people, as an example. My dad grew up without his dad. He dissed the Irish all his life, as all good Scots do, until he realized later in life that he's actually Irish, and a lot of things didn't make sense anymore.

My children grew up in the early eighties in Edmonton-Mill Woods, where there are 84 different groups of people. My husband and I used to enjoy watching them, because they didn't have a clue that they were white among a sea of people from all different nations.

This racism that you're experiencing is real, and it's experienced everywhere. I would love to know how we get to the root of it, because institutions don't come out of nowhere. They come from people creating them. Where does humanity and how we grow up and learn...? That appreciation has to start, I think, at a very young age.

It seems that today we are seeing more dissent and disagreement in society than we have in a long time, yet we want to see things improved, especially in this circumstance in the armed forces. How do you process that?

[Esrom Tesfamichael]

Where do we start with racism? Not to be flip, but I don't think we're going to tackle that.

I think what's immediately relevant both to the CAF and VAC is, first and foremost, in my opinion, that they're employers. Despite the conditions that exist in society that we are not likely to address in our lifetime, there is a responsibility to make sure that those within both are protected and can enjoy a degree of freedom from some of those factors. I think we should identify where those major touchpoints are and create, as I mentioned, guardrails and mitigation.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

I really appreciate that, having just gone through the women's study that we did.

Are you familiar with the 6888th from the U.S., where there were 800 Black women who went to fight the war?

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Blake Richards]

I'm sorry, Mrs. Wagantall—

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

It's awesome. I appreciate this.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Blake Richards]

We're going to have to stop it there, unfortunately.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

I appreciate that, Chair. No problem.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Blake Richards]

We do have bells that we have to respect here.

We have one more round of two and a half minutes, for the Liberal Party and Mr. Casey.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Lieutenant-Commander, thank you for being with us, and thank you for your service.

You were involved in a project to tell the story of more than 150 years of Black Canadian military service through the Black Canadian veterans stories project. I think that would be relevant to this study, so I wonder if you could share a bit with us about the project and your experience with it.

[Esrom Tesfamichael]

I am not familiar with my contribution to that particular project.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Okay. You were written up in Legion Magazine.

You did mention in response to a question, I believe, from Madame Auguste that you were one of the founders of the Defence team Black employees network.

Can you talk a bit about your work in that regard?

[Esrom Tesfamichael]

I'd love to. It's a great success story.

From my perspective, it came in the wake of George Floyd's murder. We were off, and there was a real need for community and a sense of partnership in order to process some of the things that were happening in the world—not just that, but COVID and the rest of it.

There was a group of folks who were able to connect, and we decided that the connection and the support that we were providing each other would likely benefit a wider swath of the CAF, so we decided to launch an employee network. It was very much a grassroots-led organization that is aimed at peer support above all else, and it exists to this day. We're happy that it has spawned other employee-led networks since.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Thanks again for being with us.

[Esrom Tesfamichael]

Thank you.