Veterans Affairs Committee on Oct. 5th, 2026

[Annie Chartrand]

Discussions are still at a very preliminary stage. For several years now, Ontario has had an extremely advanced credit transfer system in place between colleges and universities. It may seem simple, but it isn't. The fact remains, however, that we now have a good way of working. We have developed a model. So it is possible. We are here to share this good news with you: It is possible to work together. Many college graduates who have completed a two-year program have only two more years to complete at university to receive their bachelor's degree. In our jargon, we call these “2 + 2 articulation agreements”.

If it is possible to do this between universities and colleges, it is certainly possible to do so between the armed forces and colleges across Canada. In colleges, we focus on very similar professions. Civil engineering springs to mind, amongst others. Many colleges in Canada offer this program. Graduates are known as civil engineering technologists. There are also the practical nursing and paramedic programs. These are professions that exist within the armed forces and for which we provide training at colleges. Therefore, the effort required to conclude agreements with the armed forces would not be very great. It would thus be easy for a service member leaving the forces to join the program of their choice, in the province of their choice, to obtain the qualification necessary for civilian life.

[Fraser Tolmie, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

I support your efforts. I hope there will be some movement with respect to that, because veterans should be coming first here. We really need to help them out.

Mr. Morrow, thank you for coming back again. I always thank you for your service. I thank you for what you're doing “after” for veterans.

One thing that we see—I've encountered it and heard it during conversations with veterans—is a loss of identity after their service. I know this is something that you've touched on, with respect to how veterans feel. They go to apply for jobs, but they just keep getting rejection letters. What do you feel that does to veterans? When they've served their country, they feel as though they should be recognized. They don't get that recognition and then they get rejected from career opportunities? What are your thoughts?

[David Morrow]

The simple answer is, as you mentioned, the loss of identity. When you can't rebuild an identity...and let's be honest, the majority of veterans are men. We need to work to feel important. I need to work to feel important. If I can't, I don't feel like I'm worth the space that I'm taking up, and that 100% leads to the suicide crisis.

We had the most important job in the world when we were in combat. Then, when you come home and you can't even land a basic job...? I can't imagine what that feels like. I was lucky. I had my education to fall back on when I came home. I fell right back into my teaching career, but a lot don't have that luxury.

To be rejected from jobs because you're either overqualified or.... Nine out of 10 times it's because you're way too qualified, or the other aspect is that I think a lot of Canadian employers don't want to take a risk on a veteran because of the stigma associated with veterans. I don't know how we fix that, but I think you're on the mark with your statement there.

[Fraser Tolmie, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

Okay.

I'm sorry. With respect to the stigma, could you please unpack that, because—

[The Chair, Liberal, Marie-France Lalonde]

I'm sorry, Mr. Tolmie. I was so attentive to Mr. Morrow that I forgot to watch the clock. You have exceeded your time, sir, by about 30 seconds. I have to apologize—

[Fraser Tolmie, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

Okay.

[A voice]

Does he not get a senior's discount?

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Liberal, Marie-France Lalonde]

I will not comment, but I will redirect....

Thank you, Mr. Morrow, for your time.

Mr. Tolmie, it's always nice.

Ms. Auguste, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Tatiana Auguste, Liberal, Terrebonne, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I would like to thank the witnesses for being here.

Mr. Morrow, thank you for your service.

I would also like to thank College La Cité for enabling francophone minority communities to study in French. I believe the work you do is important.

Mr. Thibault-Chabot, La Cité's policy allows for the recognition of prior learning gained through professional or personal experience by assessing it against the learning objectives of the courses. This is truly a mechanism that could provide a pathway for recognizing skills acquired during military service.

How does this process apply to a veteran who, due to their way of expressing themselves or their military records, is unable to describe their skills in the language commonly used by civilian institutions?

[Frédéric Thibault-Chabot]

That's a very good point. We need to be the interpreters of this language. We need to work with veterans. There are already well-established pathways in place, but it's important to create more and build the connections.

Veterans using the service shouldn't have to deal with complexity. They must be able to see exactly which pathways are available to them. Where these do not exist, we are able to assess their skills quickly and accurately to guide them towards a second career that will inspire them.

[Tatiana Auguste, Liberal, Terrebonne, QC]

Does the fact that La Cité is a French-speaking secondary school attract more veterans? What effect does this have on your client base?

[Frédéric Thibault-Chabot]

In a minority-language environment, there are always slightly fewer clients, as we are targeting a smaller slice of the pie. Our mission is to offer programs in French, although the subject terminology is taught in both French and English. We offer language courses to all students to help them develop their bilingualism. I think this bilingual approach is a real asset. However, we obviously have fewer students overall.

The same applies to veterans. On the other hand, we do attract students thanks to the diversity we offer. We receive enrolments from all corners of the country from French-speaking or bilingual students who wish to continue their studies without losing their French-language skills, which are highly valued in the workplace.

[Tatiana Auguste, Liberal, Terrebonne, QC]

Thank you very much.

My next question is perhaps for everyone, but mainly for Mr. Morrow.

How can we help veterans to recognize their own experiences? Sometimes they have their own way of talking about things. They tell themselves that what they know how to do is “just” this or that. How can we help them find the right words and understand that their experiences are skills that are valuable in the labour market?

[David Morrow]

That's a very good question, but I don't really have an answer, because there are programs that already exist.

For me, it was a bit difficult, but as I said earlier, I'd studied education, so it was quite straightforward to make the transition. However, for others, I don't have a good answer to give you. There are programs available, but it really is up to the veterans to seek them out. I don't know how to say this in French, but in English, we say:

“You can bring a horse to water, but you can't force him to drink.”

[Annie Chartrand]

I think it's up to us, the institutions, to have qualified and trained staff who understand the realities of military life. Here at La Cité, we are starting to develop this understanding, precisely so that we have staff who can act as interpreters when veterans come to apply. We need to support them by focusing not on the administrative side, but on bridging the gap between military language and the language of our college.

[Tatiana Auguste, Liberal, Terrebonne, QC]

Thank you.

Earlier, you spoke about building on existing skills rather than having to relearn everything from scratch. Could you tell us a little more about the approach aimed at enabling veterans to build on what they already have rather than starting all over again?

[Frédéric Thibault-Chabot]

The approach aimed at supplementing skills already acquired is known as the recognition of prior learning. We must begin by reviewing a person's entire file. Some people may have undertaken prior studies, which leads to equivalencies. Others have no prior studies, but have developed expertise through work experience gained outside a formal educational program. We need people who are able to assess this.

We are currently developing tools that enable us to assess certain things based on evidence submitted by a veteran, for example. Evidence might be a CV, a letter of recommendation or a job description that outlines the tasks or skills developed. We can then assess certain aspects using authentic tasks, in a laboratory setting, for example, to see exactly which tasks the person is capable of performing and what skills they have at their disposal.

[Tatiana Auguste, Liberal, Terrebonne, QC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marie-France Lalonde]

Mrs. DeBellefeuille, you have the floor for two minutes and thirty seconds.

[Claude DeBellefeuille]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Let's imagine that I am a veteran, that my skills have been assessed and that I am told I could pursue a career as a civil engineering technologist, for example. You have developed a great deal of expertise. I live in Quebec and decide to undertake my training at La Cité. Do you have any agreements with Quebec to ensure that the qualification I obtain at La Cité is recognized in Quebec? Are there any formal discussions taking place with Quebec?

[Annie Chartrand]

We have formal agreements with various post-secondary institutions across Canada and with certain professional associations across Canada. So, it's not just with Quebec, but across Canada. We have agreements with Quebec in particular as well. It depends on the field. In some cases, students may need to take an additional course at an institution in Quebec.

However, it is certainly the case that interprovincial mobility is a factor for our students.

[Claude DeBellefeuille]

During discussions with the previous panel of witnesses, it was mentioned that there were many obstacles to implementing a strategy to better facilitate the transition from military to civilian life. I wondered whether there was a Canadian body that allows all provinces to be represented in order to advise national defence or Veterans Affairs Canada on the transfer of skills.

What are your thoughts on this?

[Frédéric Thibault-Chabot]

We are part of a network of colleges across Canada, including in Quebec, called Colleges and Institutes Canada. It really highlights what the college sector can achieve, not just locally, but across Canada, in both official languages.

[Claude DeBellefeuille]

Is your organization recognized by national defence as a key player in taking concrete action during the transition?