Veterans Affairs Committee on Oct. 9th, 2025

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

I have 30 seconds left, so later I will ask you whether you feel heard as a woman and as a veteran.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marie-France Lalonde]

Thank you very much.

We will now proceed with our second round.

Mr. Richards, you have five minutes.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Airdrie—Cochrane, AB]

Thank you.

Thank you to both of you for being here.

Ashley, if I may, it was briefly touched on a couple of times—you mentioned it in your opening and I think in response to some questions—that you weren't able to get any help from Veterans Affairs for yourself or your children. Thankfully, you do have what you need through the CAF, but obviously, if someone wasn't in your position, they wouldn't be getting help either. Your children aren't able to get help through Veterans Affairs.

Can you tell me a little bit about your efforts to get help through Veterans Affairs, what that has looked like and what kind of communication you've had from them in terms of why they aren't helping you and your children?

[Ashley Thompson]

For sure.

I opened up My VAC probably three months after he passed. I was actually told by my DA from the military to do this. I put it through. I was automatically denied. They told me it was not service related. I did tell them that we were doing a BOI and that when it was complete, they could have the BOI. During that, no benefits would be given until there was a decision made.

The BOI was completed in February 2024. That was almost a year and a half after his passing. When I received that, I let them know that the lieutenant-colonel at the time told me that I was not allowed to give it to Veterans Affairs Canada. Veterans Affairs Canada had to request it. I let Veterans Affairs know that. They requested it, and again, it took months to get it from the CAF. During that time, I had communication with them on what benefits I could receive without a decision. They told me I could receive none.

The way they communicated to me was through My VAC, my personal VAC and not my spouse's. During that time, I'm still communicated to as a serving member. When his VAC talks to me, I am a serving member. They don't look at me as a spouse. I am approached by my rank and my last name. During this, I asked them to stop addressing me like that. At this time I am a spouse, and this has nothing to do with my own personal Veterans Affairs.

The unfavourable decision came out, and since then I have reached out to the board of appeals to have a court session, I guess. I'm not too sure how that's going to go. This has recently come up. To be honest with you, I just received an email this morning, which said that it is going to the court of appeals. Right now I have it so that the—

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Airdrie—Cochrane, AB]

Can I interrupt you for a second? I'm trying to understand something.

If I'm doing my math correctly, it's been about three years since your husband passed away. Is that correct?

[Ashley Thompson]

You are correct. We're just past it.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Airdrie—Cochrane, AB]

You started this process three months after he passed. It's been almost three years of dealing with waiting for this, waiting for that, waiting for forms to go, being told no and then waiting for more forms.

[Ashley Thompson]

Yes.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Airdrie—Cochrane, AB]

Now you're looking at doing an appeal. How long ago was that appeal filed? How long have you waited for that?

I'm just going to say it. Three years is absolutely ridiculous.

[Ashley Thompson]

Yes. You are not wrong.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Airdrie—Cochrane, AB]

I'm trying to figure out how that could happen.

[Ashley Thompson]

It was honestly—

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Airdrie—Cochrane, AB]

You are in the appeal process now. How long have you been in that? Is there any hope? I guess that's the question.

[Ashley Thompson]

I've been waiting for my appeal for two months. I do not have a date for when I will appear.

I honestly hope that this time around, they get to hear the full story of what happened and have the full documentation and paperwork to assess his service, and they don't just go off what the military BOI deemed appropriate at the time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marie-France Lalonde]

Thank you very much, Mrs. Thompson.

Mr. Clark, you now have the floor for five minutes.

[Braedon Clark, Liberal, Sackville—Bedford—Preston, NS]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Ms. Le Scelleur, thank you for being here today.

I have a few questions about your work related to chronic pain, which Mr. Casey asked you about in an earlier round. Obviously, you have a tremendous amount of personal experience through your service, which we thank you for.

I'm curious. How does that play into your work now that you're dealing with the chronic pain centre? How much of an issue is chronic pain as it relates to the topic of suicide prevention, which is the nature of the study we're undertaking right now?

[Hélène Le Scelleur]

Many statistics were presented at the meeting on October 2. I didn’t want to revisit those statistics, but it’s well known that the suicide rate among women is on the rise, as the most recent statistics show.

As I said, it’s hard to pinpoint the causes because there are so many, which is why we should instead start by pulling together all these causes to look at these realities with a comprehensive lens and determine how to address them.

I am vice-chair of the Advisory Council for Veterans at the Chronic Pain Centre of Excellence for Canadian Veterans. Our role, as veterans who sit on this committee, is to provide information, opinions and advice regarding the research priorities process. We’re involved in the process from start to finish to identify issues not being addressed. Chronic pain has only recently been recognized as being more common in women than in men. This information only came to light less than 5 or 10 years ago.

Our role, as people who have lived through such experiences, is crucial in guiding the organization so that it can fund research projects that will have a real impact on veterans’ daily lives.

[Braedon Clark, Liberal, Sackville—Bedford—Preston, NS]

Thank you for that.

Chronic pain might be one of those issues that are, as you alluded to, under-reported and underappreciated as a barrier for veterans—and for serving members, I'm sure. In your experience, how does the issue of chronic pain contribute to any difficulties that veterans may have in the transition to civilian life, which we know is always a challenge for veterans?

How does adding on another layer of chronic pain, which can often be a lifetime issue, make that transition more difficult? How does your work try to smooth that out and make it easier for veterans to deal with?

[Hélène Le Scelleur]

Military culture, the way soldiers think, which is to always overcome obstacles, leads people to tolerate pain and push themselves beyond their limits.

Furthermore, I’ve noticed a trend: Chronic pain is rarely or very rarely diagnosed during military service. Pain during service is talked about. Chronic pain will occur during service but will often only be diagnosed once the person has left active duty.

It’s something we see a lot. That’s why the data the Canadian Armed Forces provided doesn’t really show how common chronic pain actually is. There are figures, but they are low in relation to the veteran population because, as I just mentioned, chronic pain is often only diagnosed after completion of active duty.

That was true in my case, and it was the first time I had been diagnosed with this condition. However, because of the injury I sustained in Afghanistan when my vehicle was blown up, I developed chronic pain from that moment on because my sacrum was fractured and my entire spine was impacted. However, in all the years between 2007 and when I was discharged in 2016, I was only prescribed physical therapy to relieve my pain, without really going further and stating that it was chronic pain caused by an accident. That only happened later on.

[Braedon Clark, Liberal, Sackville—Bedford—Preston, NS]

Thank you for that.

We have heard from previous witnesses in other meetings about the stoic culture within the armed forces and about that sometimes being a bit of a double-edged sword. There are obviously wonderful things about that, but on the other hand, as you mentioned, sometimes it can lead to people thinking, “We're just going to soldier on”—no pun intended—which can sometimes exacerbate itself over time. They may get to a position that is more difficult than it otherwise could or should probably be.

How much...?

Oh, I'm out of time. Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marie-France Lalonde]

I’m so sorry, Captain Le Scelleur, but Mr. Clark’s time is up.

Next is Ms. Gaudreau for two and a half minutes.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Ms. Le Scelleur, I just want to come back to what you said in the previous round of questions, when you mentioned a request. What are you expecting in terms of a response? You want to know the status of the December 2, 2024 request. So, you want an answer, right?

[Hélène Le Scelleur]

Yes, definitely.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Perfect.

Therefore, Madam Chair, we must commit to getting an answer. What about the issue of a public apology and an explanation of what led to this situation?

Captain Le Scelleur, you sit on Veterans Affairs Canada’s Women Veterans Council. With everything we’re hearing, I would like to know if the members of this council feel heard and respected. How is it going?

[Hélène Le Scelleur]

I was honoured to have been invited to sit on this council, which was supposed to advise the minister directly. So, at first glance, I would say yes, we are respected and taken seriously by the staff who support us administratively, but beyond that, it’s a different story. At the government management level, we are neither respected nor adequately equipped, nor are we considered to be on par with what a ministerial advisory council should be.

For over a year, we have been fighting just to be able to fulfill our mandate. To date, we still have no allocated budget, no resources assigned to us and no access to the minister we are supposed to advise. Furthermore, we have no real voice to exert the influence for which the council was created. The mandate to advise the minister on issues affecting women veterans is still not accompanied by any means to do so. In fact, we exist only symbolically, unfortunately. The council seems like this great thing, with nice photos in publications.

So, when we talk about suicide prevention, we need to understand that isolation, feelings of worthlessness—much like what we are currently experiencing—and lack of recognition are major risk factors. Some council members have admitted experiencing mental health episodes, as their mental health is deteriorating.

The council’s role should be to provide this vital link between women veterans and the system, but with no resources or decision-making power, we can’t do anything. Our hands are tied. So it’s very difficult for us to say that we have any value at this time. In my opinion, despite the title of the Standing Committee on Veterans Affairs’ report, “Invisible no more,” we remain deeply invisible to this day.