Veterans Affairs Committee on Oct. 28th, 2025

[Kelsie Sheren]

I'm sorry. Is there a question?

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

I have been afforded six minutes. I can use the six minutes as I wish.

That is something I wanted to have clearly on the record.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Airdrie—Cochrane, AB]

Madam Chair, on a point of order, although Mr. Casey is correct, I certainly hope he will give the witnesses an opportunity to respond, because they clearly want to.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marie-France Lalonde]

Mr. Richards, I'm chairing this committee. You have your own chance to ask questions. I would ask you to please let Mr. Casey use his six minutes, just the way you sometimes use your six minutes and no one has interrupted you.

Thank you very much, Mr. Richards.

Mr. Casey, I would invite you to continue. You have a minute and 20 seconds left.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

I find it somewhat ironic, after the exchange at the last meeting, that Mr. Richards would think it appropriate for any member of the committee to advise any other member as to how they should use their time.

You have done it every time the minister has been on the stand, Mr. Richards, and we both know that.

[Kelsie Sheren]

I'm just wondering why the veterans who are involved in this study aren't being given time to address the statements—

[The Chair, Liberal, Marie-France Lalonde]

Mr. Casey, you have a minute left.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Thank you.

Mr. Fynes, I'd like to start with you.

First of all, please accept my profound condolences on the loss of your son, and thank you for sharing this. You can feel the pain.

You indicated, I think, at the outset that your son committed suicide after a decision was made with respect to access to medical treatment, and then you indicated that it was a problem that access to medical treatment had to be earned.

Can you explain exactly what you were referring to there?

[Shaun Fynes]

I'm very happy to. Thank you for your condolences.

They designated me to have access to all of his personal information, so I gained access to his military and medical records and to interviews conducted by the military police with his chain of command.

It said in interviews that the decision had already been made that he would not be granted that further treatment at a program in Ontario. It was also mentioned, although it was not directly connected, that the cost would have been $50,000.

I think it was the RSM—I'm going back to about 17 years ago. In an interview, he and the adjutant were told that Stuart was on these restrictions in order to show what he was capable of and to earn further treatment. It was unequivocal.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marie-France Lalonde]

Mr. Fynes, thank you very much.

I am sorry I have to interrupt you.

Ms. Gaudreau, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

One person here can try to be a bit hopeful.

I'll go back to what was said at the outset. Everything is transitory when it comes to elected officials, as everything starts over after a general election. I'm new to the committee, but I still ensure the continuity of what was put in place by the member of my party who preceded me on this committee, Luc Desilets.

That said, I think it's important to remember one thing. When we're elected, we want to do a good job. We want to make our mark, but, above all, we want to get re-elected. So we have choices to make and actions to take. However, depending on where we are, it is obvious that parliamentary sparring very often takes precedence over an elected official's values. That's a reality. It is said that our democracy has its weaknesses. In that respect, you are victims of democracy's weakness, of the fact that the person that was elected is not front and centre. Why? Sometimes I wonder.

In life, when a person cherishes someone, be it their friends or children, they value them. However, valuing someone means providing them with care, supporting them, but also understanding them. The best things I've ever done in my life happened when I dared to observe things first-hand and go and see what was really going on. No, I won't go into the field per se, but curiosity is needed. We also have to want to try to understand everyone's reality.

With all that comes the need to make certain requests, to provide certain things and to face reality. We have to accept reality, even when we see such incredible flaws. I have spoken with veterans in my riding, and they've told me that there were potentially 22 suicides a day. I found that astounding. Those may be the numbers from 10 years ago.

Do you have current statistics on the number of suicides per day?

[Kelsie Sheren]

According to the American studies—because this is something I focus my entire existence on—it's 44 per day. We did a TED talk on it. TED banned it.

Canada doesn't count them. Neither does the U.K. or Australia. The only numbers we have to go on are the American numbers because they care enough to count their suicides. It's a minimum of 22 and up to 44 per day.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

It's unbelievable.

Right now, we're stuck in a system. The federal budget will be tabled soon, on November 4, and we're interested in knowing what's going to happen. The government wants to increase funding for national defence, but the majority of people are suffering.

In your case, you were encouraged to serve in the forces with the promise that not only would you receive gratitude, but also lifelong support. However, that is not what is happening. What happens when your military service is over? There are stories like the ones you're describing. You become victims because at some point it was decided that, once their military service was completed, these people would be brought back into their own system.

I will never be in power, as my interests are focused on the people of Quebec, even though they serve all Canadians, of course. That said, one thing frustrates me a great deal. I realize that a lot of energy is being put into gaining people's sympathy when it comes to services that do not even come under the federal government's jurisdiction, such as medication and health care. However, when people get to the point where they need those things, there's a gap in the continuity of services, whereas, technically, that absolutely shouldn't be the case. A five-year processing time doesn't make any sense. It is not right that we have to go on Lagacé le matin, the radio program on 98.5 in Montreal, to explain where things stand so that, all of a sudden, things get moving.

Therefore, I am speaking from the heart. Please know that we are all decent people, but that we are stuck in a system and that we are unfortunately victims of powerlessness.

I'll close on that, but I'll come back to it later, as I want to hear your comments on what I've just said.

The situation is embarrassing.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marie-France Lalonde]

Thank you very much, Ms. Gaudreau.

We will now move on to the five-minute round of questions.

Mr. Tolmie, you have five minutes, please.

[Fraser Tolmie, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'm going to give our witnesses an opportunity to respond to Mr. Casey's comments made earlier on, because I disagree with them.

I want to make a comment about my colleague from the Bloc. She says that you're victims of democracy. I disagree. I think you're victims of a lack of respect for those who are willing to sacrifice for democracy.

I have four questions. I'm going to ask them, and you can then have your time to answer them.

First of all, do you think it's appropriate to be offered MAID?

[Kelsie Sheren]

I think it's one of the most disgusting, despicable things that anybody could offer any human being who's going through anything in their life at any point.

[Fraser Tolmie, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

Okay. I was going to ask all four, but I'm okay with rapid fire.

If people came forward about being offered MAID, as was suggested by Mr. Casey, from the testimonies that I've heard from Mr. Fynes, Ms. Gauthier and you, Ms. Sheren, do you feel that you would be safe? Do you feel that you wouldn't be targeted?

[Kelsie Sheren]

This week I had a stalker arrested by the RCMP because I opposed MAID publicly.

I don't travel without security. I don't leave my home very often. The RCMP follow me around frequently. When I go to America, I have JTF 2 members with me. I have Navy SEALs with me all the time.

Why? Because people like Sean Casey, is it? I have audio recordings. I don't have one; I have multiple. Different sexes.... I know we don't judge what is a woman in Canada.... There are multiple men and women offering it. I have case managers who have blown the whistle to me privately.

I am one of the most trusted people in North America around this, so forgive me when you tell me that there's been one. I don't believe you, mainly because I have an entire vault. Multiple people, including me—because I've learned this from Candace Owens—have those copies as well.

[Fraser Tolmie, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

Okay.

Ms. Gauthier, this question is going to be related to you.

I'm disappointed. I remember in 2023 the comments about the suitcase—unfortunately, the screenshot here right now isn't that—but it's a carry-on suitcase that's overflowing with files that have not been dealt with.

Has your caseworker been dealing with you in person? I want to know, when they offered you MAID, did they do it by phone? Did they do it by email? Did they actually sit in front of you?

[Christine Gauthier]

He told me to make a routine call. I told him—again, I will repeat it—“I really can't deal with this anymore. What's going on? Why is it not being resolved?” He said, “If you really can't deal with it anymore, you know, you have the right to die.”

Take it as you want. Did he tell me, “I'm writing a prescription”? No.

To answer your question, if you want a paper trail of it, Mr. Casey, when we asked for the documents, I reported it to the doctors who were treating me at Sainte-Anne.

There is one letter in here from the psychiatrist when he wrote that I had spoken to him about that case manager, and his name is in it. If the doctor doesn't write the comment of a discussion, it's not me not writing it. I denounced it. I declared it.

Then the other doctor taking care of me called VAC saying that I did not want him to call me anymore. If we can get our hands on these documents that we've asked for, from the date that he had the interdiction to contact me, you're going to have the date it happened.

[Fraser Tolmie, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

Thank you.

I only have a minute left.

Ms. Sheren, you said that you have records of people that have come forward. Has it been the same? Has it been emails? Has it been phone calls, things that people can't trace? Do you think there should be consequences for those who offer MAID and shouldn't be offering MAID?

[Kelsie Sheren]

They should be put in prison for murder. They're counselling suicide. They're offering a carrot to individuals. Forty-six per cent of them we now know were already thinking of killing themselves. I went through a decade and a half of wanting to kill myself because of 11 different drugs; I was told I would never work again and would never be a productive part of society. I was broken. I was damaged, and I felt it would be easier if I died.

Forgive me when the Liberals have a hard time understanding that people come to somebody and actually trust them more than they trust their Veterans Affairs case manager. You change our case manager every other week. The new guy I have, I can't even pronounce his name.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marie-France Lalonde]

Thank you very much, Ms. Sheren.

We will now go to Mr. Clark for five minutes.

[Braedon Clark, Liberal, Sackville—Bedford—Preston, NS]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses for being here today. Thank you for your service as well.

Mr. Fynes, I want to touch on something you talked about earlier when you were being questioned by Mr. Casey about the care that Stuart was denied towards the end of his life.

Was any explanation ever given as to why that decision was made, or were you left in the dark on that?

[Shaun Fynes]

In terms of the broader picture, the army and the base medical were focusing on the symptoms of Stuart's PTSD, i.e., he was drinking himself to sleep and drinking half a pot of coffee the next morning to get going again. They focused on the fact that he had developed a problem with alcohol and marijuana.

Not long before his death, he failed a drug test that showed cocaine, but the medical records show that when Stuart was being admitted, he admitted he had tried cocaine three times but didn't like it. I suspect that when he was under those restrictions, he couldn't get to alcohol and he couldn't self-medicate, so he may have accessed cocaine. That was not the underlying issue. The underlying issue was his PTSD, but he was written off as a loser.

In my honest opinion, looking back with 17 years of hindsight, they made the decision that Stuart wasn't going to get any further treatment. I think the restrictions they placed him under were simply setting him up to fail so that they could then fire him and get rid of him. They had no interest in helping him at that point. I'm sorry; I truly believe that.