Debates of Jan. 19th, 1994

Taxation

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, to pursue this line of questioning, so far the federal government has not demonstrated a firm commitment towards reforming the Canadian tax system to address blatant unfairness and inequities. It is more concerned with testing the public opinion left and right about possible deep cuts pretty well across the board, but especially in social programs, while sparing the rich.

My question is for the Minister of Finance. Is the Minister backing away from undertaking as a matter of urgency a serious and thorough reform of the Canadian tax system to better distribute the burden among Quebec and Canadian taxpayers?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development (Quebec)]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to start by congratulating my colleague on his first question before this House. As he knows, consultations are underway, in fact the most extensive ones ever carried out in this country regarding a budget.

Within this framework, the Canadian people have told us that they wanted radical changes in many government programs, including taxation, and that is what we have set out to do.

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, if the Minister of Finance is indeed firmly committed to reform, is he prepared to undertake today to eliminate immediately this horrible family trust system which benefits only the richest of the rich, not the poorest of the poor in our society?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development (Quebec)]

Mr. Speaker, as my honourable colleague knows full well, I will be tabling shortly before this House the federal budget, in which he will no doubt find an answer to his questions.

The Economy

[Preston Manning, Reform, Calgary Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister.

At the same time that we are facing record debt and taxation levels to which the hon. member has just referred, we are also facing record levels of unemployment. Many economists and business people feel there is a direct connection between the two, that high debt and taxes kill private sector job creation.

Would the Prime Minister give the House the government's view on the connection between high record levels of debt and high record levels of unemployment and tell us whether the government believes that deficit cutting is essential to private sector job creation.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, we understand that we have a huge debt in Canada. Yesterday apparently we surpassed the fantastic figure of $500 billion. It is a big burden that the Conservative Party left as a legacy with which we must start our work today. It is a reality and it is a big problem for the nation.

There are two ways we can solve this problem and it will take some time. We have to cut expenditures but the main thing we can do to reduce the debt is to make sure that there are jobs in Canada for Canadians so that they can work and produce growth

and produce taxes. That is the way we want to approach the problem.

[Preston Manning, Reform, Calgary Southwest, AB]

I think all members agree with your reply but my question was: Is there a direct connection between the-

[The Speaker]

Order. I know we are all new to the House but would you please address your questions and your statements directly to the Chair.

[Preston Manning, Reform, Calgary Southwest, AB]

I have a supplementary, Mr. Speaker, on the same subject of deficits and jobs.

This has come to us. It is an inquiry received on our question fax line from Dr. Dean P. Eyre of Ottawa. He asked the government this question. He said: "The government proposes to spend $6 billion on infrastructure and create 65,000 jobs. Has the government calculated how many jobs might have been created if that $6 billion were simply cut from the taxes of individuals, property owners and small businesses?"

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

The questioners through the leader of the Reform Party should know that only $2 billion of the $6 billion is coming from the federal treasury, so it will have reduced only the deficit of the federal government. This infrastructure program is a big success.

The mayor of Calgary is very enthusiastic about this program, as are the mayors of Hamilton, Edmonton, Vancouver, Victoria, and Shawinigan, Quebec.

Human Resources

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, Mercier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday in the Throne Speech the government really disappointed Quebecers and Canadians, who were expecting, after the election campaign's theme of "jobs, jobs, jobs", a true job creation program. In fact, no concrete initiatives were announced, except for the infrastructure program, which is inadequate to our needs.

My question is for Mr. Axworthy who is responsible for human resources development.

[An hon. member]

The Minister of Human Resources.

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, Mercier, QC]

The Minister of Human Resources, Mr. Axworthy.

[An hon. member]

No, you are not allowed to mention his name.

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, Mercier, QC]

I cannot name him. Mr. Speaker, I will not name the minister.

[The Speaker]

Thank you.

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, Mercier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, would the minister reassure everybody by telling us when the government will finally do something and which initiatives it will take to help the many Quebecers and Canadians who want to work but who cannot find jobs?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, first I would like to congratulate you as the new Speaker of the House, which is a difficult task to assume.

I also want to congratulate the hon. member for Mercier for her interest in this issue. I hope that we will have many opportunities to exchange our views, for the benefit of all Canadians.

As the hon. members will know, the Throne Speech includes several initiatives and measures. For example, the Youth Service Corps is a very important tool to put young Canadians to work. We will also set up a training program for all Canadians. I believe this can provide a good solution to the important problems which our young people are facing.

We have also announced a comprehensive reform of our social security system.

This is a good response to the concerns voiced by the poor and it will bring about the essential changes needed to develop an employment program for a large number of Canadians.

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, Mercier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, this answer is totally unsatisfactory. I have a supplementary question for the minister. Why did he agree to the $800 million increase in UI contributions, given the disastrous effect this measure will have on the economy, and considering that the government invests only $1 billion a year in the infrastructure program?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, I am not quite sure what the exact question is but as I tried to outline to the hon. member I will be very glad to provide her with a full explanation of the measures.

In the throne speech we detailed very specific commitments that are made in the red book for providing employment for young people and for the very serious problem of transition from school to work.

The Minister of Finance and the Minister of Industry have outlined a number of measures to help create employment in the small business sector and in high technology to help the provinces develop new initiatives.

As the hon. member will know, we are presenting a series of more detailed explanations. Each minister will be giving an outline of those during the reply to the speech from the throne. I am sure that after the hon. member has had an occasion to listen to the excellent speeches presented by my colleagues she will

fully understand the major commitment we in this government have to jobs.

Auditor General's Report

[John Williams, Reform, St. Albert, AB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Finance.

The Auditor General tabled his report today. In it he has pointed out that unless some real changes are made the federal debt, that is, the federal debt alone and not the national debt, will reach 100 per cent of the gross domestic product by the year 2008.

The Auditor General has red flagged the situation as being of serious concern. He has stated in his report: "Hard choices lie ahead".

The speech from the throne has focused on spending programs with no recognition of the serious fiscal situation facing this country.

Is the Minister of Finance now able to assure Canadians that deficit reduction is this country's number one priority rather than introducing more spending programs as we heard about yesterday?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development -Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, there is no doubt that deficit reduction is a major priority of this government.

There is no doubt that we share the views largely expressed by the Auditor General. We did so in a matter of weeks after taking office. There is no doubt, as well, as the Prime Minister said so well in his opening remarks that we are not going to get the deficit reduction unless we also understand that economics is about people and that this country needs jobs.

[John Williams, Reform, St. Albert, AB]

Mr. Speaker, we understand that this country certainly does need jobs.

However, having looked at and read through the report, it would appear that there are many areas where this government can take charge of its own finances and ensure that money that is currently being wasted and misspent is available for Canadians.

Will the Minister of Finance assure us that he will look at the Auditor General's report and implement the recommendations there to ensure that Canadian taxpayers' money is spent for the best benefit of this country?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development -Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member opposite and I certainly share one thing in common. When I first came to the House and was up I also forgot to ask my question.

The hon. member can rest assured that we are going to take the comments of the Auditor General very seriously, especially since he is looking at us from up there. We have already begun to do so.

Manpower Programs

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, there is a broad consensus in Quebec on eliminating costly administrative duplication in manpower programs. Unions, management, the government and hundreds of thousands of unemployed Quebecers agree. The 26,000 Quebecers waiting for occupational training, even though skilled jobs are available, also agree.

My question for the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs is as follows: Does he intend to conclude an agreement with the Government of Quebec as soon as possible on eliminating this costly duplication and thus respect the commitment which the Prime Minister made at the first ministers' summit on December 21, and the commitment which he himself made in early December?