Debates of Jan. 25th, 1994

Auditor General's Report

[Marcel Massé, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I was asked to give a conference at Harvard University on public service renewal on very short notice. I had events that were already prepared on Monday morning in my county. The only way to get there for 4.30 in the afternoon to give the speech was, in fact, to take the plane. I had to come back in the evening because there was a cabinet meeting on Tuesday morning.

I think in the circumstances, Mr. Speaker, the expenditure was fully justified.

[Myron Thompson, Reform, Wild Rose, AB]

Mr. Speaker, a supplementary question. Can we take from the minister's answer that he is promising business as usual or is he saying he will spend taxpayers' dollars with a little more restraint?

[Marcel Massé, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada]

Mr. Speaker, all I can promise is that in the future I will use taxpayers' money in order to be as efficient as possible in exactly the way it was demonstrated by that trip.

Indian Affairs

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development.

On my recent trip to the Canadian north I witnessed the deplorable living conditions of the Inuit. In particular, the misery of the inhabitants of Davis Inlet in Labrador has been highlighted in recent months following the disclosure of the very high rate of suicide, drug and alcohol abuse among the young people in that community and the failure of the treatment administered.

Does the government intend to put an end to the disgraceful and inhumane treatment meted out to the inhabitants of Davis Inlet by moving the village, for example, and are these priority concerns for the minister?

[Ron Irwin, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for Lac-Saint-Jean for his question and his concern.

It is a high priority. Two weeks ago we had officials with my personal staff and Justice in. We will be going back probably with an acceptable package in the early part of March which will probably involve health and justice.

I assure you it is my priority to get this done this month. I agree that we cannot have this happen in our country. These are our people and we cannot leave them out there.

[The Speaker]

I know it is a small thing but would hon. members always please address questions and answers to the Chair.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would remind the minister that I am the hon. member for Saint-Jean, not Lac-Saint-Jean. It is very important; it is my other colleague here.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

I would like to ask the minister if his government is prepared to exert its influence with the Liberal Government of Newfoundland in order that positive steps might be taken to improve the living conditions of the inhabitants of Davis Inlet and in particular to help the desperate young people in that community.

[Ron Irwin, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, I met with the Premier of Newfoundland and with the Attorney General.

In the last week the Attorney General of Newfoundland has had two two-hour discussions with my executive assistant. There is a misconception that Newfoundland does not want to take care of the problem. I assure you that they do. They are as concerned as we are and we are working together to solve this as best we can. Ultimately it will be well into the next century before the problems of Davis Inlet are solved.

We will work together to the best of our ability to solve the problems.

Kemano Project

[John Cummins, Reform, Delta, BC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister.

The Kemano completion project in British Columbia has raised considerable concern.

During the election campaign in a letter to the Cheslatta Band of Burns Lake the Prime Minister made a commitment that if

elected his government would participate in the ongoing B.C. Utilities Commission hearings. He would make available all information in federal possession relevant to the hearings, and furthermore the government would remove the gag order on current and former employees with information pertinent to the proceedings. Alcan itself has requested federal participation in the hearings.

Is the Prime Minister prepared to live up to his election commitment today?

[Brian Tobin, Liberal, Minister of Fisheries and Oceans]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for his question. I congratulate him on his new responsibilities as a member of the Reform Party opposite.

The hon. member will note that a clear and consistent pattern has emerged and it is that this new government strives mightily always to ensure that the commitments and declarations of the Prime Minister of Canada are lived up to.

This matter is being considered Thursday by cabinet. We hope to be able to apprise the House of the results of our deliberations shortly thereafter.

[John Cummins, Reform, Delta, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the minister for his answer.

In the same letter the Prime Minister also made a commitment "to undertake an immediate study of all available options to ensure the maintenance of sustainable fisheries and a sustainable regional economy in the Nechako region and the well being of aboriginal peoples who are affected by the completion of the Kemano project".

It is now three months since the election. When is the Prime Minister going to live up to his commitment for this immediate study?

[Brian Tobin, Liberal, Minister of Fisheries and Oceans]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member will know that the settlement agreement was signed in 1987 and that the current circumstance with respect to the terms and conditions attached to the Kemano completion project were negotiated by a previous administration.

It is reasonable that a new government on assuming office would want to review fully this very complex matter involving hundreds of millions of dollars worth of expenditure-$600 million on phase II, over $1 billion on phase I-and would want to fully undertake all of its responsibilities to explore this matter before proceeding.

I have thrown as broad a hint as I can without risking cabinet solidarity. Members will find that the government always strives mightily and consistently to ensure that the commitments given are kept in as full and as complete a manner as possible. Cabinet is now seized with this question.

Auditor General's Report

[John Cannis, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Human Resource Development.

In the Auditor General's report released last week it was revealed that there were many problems with respect to the telephone service in the income security programs branch. The report criticized the service saying that more calls were abandoned than answered.

People are having difficulty getting through on the telephone lines and are consistently getting a busy signal. This creates a real problem for seniors who are often in urgent need of information regarding their old age and Canada pension benefits.

I would like to ask the minister how he plans to solve this problem in order that Canadians can receive the service they deserve.

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the hon. member for Scarborough Centre for having become a persistent advocate on this very important issue.

It is important to point out to members of the House, particularly those who are on the constant refrain of how to cut back government expenditures, but in this particular case the increase of calls on old age pension and security questions increased by 60 per cent over the last six or seven years. We now receive over 11 million calls a year.

At the same time a restraint program cut back personnel by 20 per cent. As a result many senior citizens have not been able to receive the service they require and deserve.

Saying that, we have now taken steps to try to correct the situation. We will be taking on board a special program, a system of telephone banks with about 200 personnel that will have immediate access through a computer to all of the phone systems of our department throughout Canada. We will be spending about $3 million to upgrade that equipment. That will be the first phase in an attempt to modernize the system. We believe it will provide immediate, and we hope, efficient service within a matter of four or five weeks.

I hope that the hon. member can wait until that system comes into place because it is a clear indication that we are going to target existing resources of the department to provide direct service to Canadians.

Administration Of Justice

[Pierrette Venne, Bloc, Saint-Hubert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, a few days ago, a young girl, Sarah Dutil, was killed in Verdun. The suspected murderer is an individual who was released on November 15, 1993, after his trial for murder was cancelled. He was freed directly as a consequence of the appointment, on June 23, 1993, of Henry Steinberg, the Superior Court judge in charge of the case, to the Quebec Appeal Court.

The then Prime Minister acted without any regard for Judge Steinberg's previous commitments. Such action is totally unacceptable and is bound to discredit the administration of justice and the whole judicial process.

My question is for the Minister of Justice. Does he agree with the recommendation made by the Quebec Bar Association suggesting that it become mandatory to consult with the chief justice of a court before appointing one of his judges to another position?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, may I first express the sense of horror and sadness that all members of this Chamber must feel at the tragic death of Sarah Dutil. Our hearts go out to members of her family.

There are two aspects I would offer to the hon. member in response to the important question she has raised. First, my understanding of the traditional practice is that whenever a trial court judge is to be elevated to the appellate level, inquiries are made by the minister of the chief justice of the relevant court to be sure that the appointment will not interfere with the completion of any proceeding or trial that is under way. That is certainly the practice I intend to follow as long as I have any involvement with the appointment process. As to what happened in June of last year with respect to the appointment in question, I have no personal knowledge.

There is a second aspect as well. The Department of Justice will soon be introducing an omnibus amendment to the Criminal Code and among other things it will propose a change to section 669.2 of the code, the effect of which will be to ensure that a criminal jury trial can proceed notwithstanding the disqualification of the presiding trial judge for any reason and the substitution of another judge so that such a circumstance may never happen again.

[Pierrette Venne, Bloc, Saint-Hubert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in view of the fact that such transfers in the midst of proceedings are an untimely and unacceptable intervention on the part of the government in the administration of justice, is any action being considered right now? I listened carefully to the minister who said that he would eventually introduce a bill. But I want to know this very minute what he intends to do.

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I can only provide my assurance to the hon. member that in any case from the present time forward which involves the appointment of a judge sitting at the trial level to another level of the courts I shall inquire before any such appointment to ensure that it does not interfere with the fair and safe completion of any proceeding before that trial judge.

Auditor General's Report

[Ed Harper, Reform, Simcoe Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of National Defence and was inspired by a concerned citizen, Mr. John MacIntosh of Dundas, Ontario.

Will the minister inform this House what action if any has been taken against the members of his department staff who failed to provide Parliament with the actual cost of transporting cabinet ministers and others in Canada as disclosed by the report of the Auditor General.

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I have answered this publicly before. There is a discrepancy between the officials in my department and the Auditor General on the accounting principles involved. It is something on which I have asked for further clarification.

[Ed Harper, Reform, Simcoe Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, a supplementary question. Could the minister tell us to what extent the civil servants of his department will be held accountable for their actions in the future?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I do not think that is a question that should be addressed to me. That is a question for government, and I do not know who could answer that.

Foreign Affairs

[Maud Debien, Bloc, Laval East, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Foreign Affairs.

The Minister of Foreign Affairs announced yesterday after meeting with the elected President of Haiti, Mr. Jean-Bertrand Aristide, that the federal government is committed to supporting a total embargo against Haiti and its military regime.

The present military and oil embargo against Haiti which is viewed as inadequate by President Aristide will be extended to include all areas, with the exception of international aid, of course.

My question is as follows: what concrete steps does the government intend to take in co-operation with Haiti's allies to ensure that the international community, including Haiti's neighbours, comply with the embargo, and to strengthen the commercial blockade, thus helping to bring about the return of the duly elected president, Mr. Aristide?