House of Commons Hansard #7 of the 35th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was bosnia.

Topics

Foreign AffairsGovernment Orders

1:15 p.m.

Reform

Jan Brown Reform Calgary Southeast, AB

Mr. Speaker, it is both an honour and a privilege to rise today and to acknowledge your election as Speaker of the House. I am sure that it will always be an encouragement to you to know that your peers gave you a mandate to provide both guidance and prudence to this House as we work through the days and decisions which lie ahead of us.

I also salute each of my colleagues, the men and women elected to this 35th Parliament. I am like them. I have been elected to serve my constituents of Calgary Southeast in this House of the people and trust that our collective wisdom will serve them well.

The hon. member for Québec-Est said that he was the last one from his caucus to rise and address this House. I feel the same way. This has enabled me to gain experience and I must say that today's debate is extremely important and requires that each of us gives it the necessary attention.

I want that thought to be known to my constituents of Calgary Southeast. I am sure that everyone within my riding will have an opinion on the war in Bosnia. Their concern will come from a desire to see lasting peace and greater tolerance and charity for others. I believe they collectively reflect the views of most Canadians.

We talk of Bosnia in an abstract sense but to bring it closer to my home, the fighting encompasses an area of 178,000 square kilometres. This area is like a block of land that extends from just north of Edmonton to just south of Calgary. There are more displaced people in this area of fighting than the entire populations of Edmonton and Calgary combined, more than 1.6 million people. Such a staggering figure should make it abundantly clear that we cannot sit idly by in a state of indecision as the fighting continues, as more families are torn asunder, as more children are killed and orphaned, as more people come to believe and accept hatred and intolerance as a way of life.

My own concern arises from an intensely personal perspective. That is what I am bringing here today, because I am of Croatian heritage. My mother was born in a small village just outside of Zagreb. I have several family members still living there. They are quite elderly and they have no desire to leave their homes. They are quite typical of those who remain there.

Of the men and women there, the women and children have all been evacuated. The men, the husbands and fathers, are the ones who are caught up in the machinery of war. Life in that village is not like what you or I could ever imagine.

It is difficult to believe that members of my family who live within hearing distance of those bombs dropping-and that is about 10 kilometres-can say: "The war is not too near and life is managed as best we can".

I mentioned earlier that we see ourselves as a nation seeking peaceful solutions and demonstrating tolerance and charity to others. I believe we are now struggling with how these inherent characteristics of our nationhood will help us to develop our response to a particularly brutal and unforgiving war. Having said that, as I thought about what I would say here as I stood before you today, there were three questions that kept coming to my mind which I believe have to be answered in any response that we offer.

First of all, are the people in this war dedicated to destroying each other? Second, will an intervention bring any lasting peace? The third question I asked: are we prepared as a country to watch Canadian soldiers die in this war without apparent end?

In response to the first question: are the people involved in this war dedicated to destroying each other? It appears that the answer is yes. While diplomatic efforts to end the war go on fruitlessly, the killing continues unabated. Life has been reduced to a primitive state with no electricity and no running water. People who were neighbours and friends became bitter enemies overnight. Serbs are killing Bosnian Muslims and Croats. Croats are killing Muslims and sometimes Serbs. Muslims are killing their attackers. I cannot imagine how anyone living in the midst of this carnage can remain objective.

Second, will an intervention bring any lasting peace? There is a fundamental tension to the focus of our debate because of our legal and moral obligations toward intervention in the region. Are we going to intervene? Also, what costs are we willing to accept if we do intervene without making a simultaneous effort to bring the conflict to an end? Do we want to see Canadian soldiers die as they bring humanitarian aid to the region?

Canada as a signatory of the United Nations universal declaration of human rights has always taken a leading role in international responsibilities. Canadians are deservedly very proud of this. We fulfil our international obligations in many important ways.

I will mention just a few. We dispatch experienced and highly competent troops to the theatres of combat. In these theatres we care for the sick, wounded and hungry. We also provide here in our Canadian communities a safe haven to many of these peoples displaced by the fighting.

In answer to the question of intervention, I do not believe that anything we do as humanitarians will make the difference.

This is the last question. Are we prepared as a country to watch Canadian soldiers die in this war without apparent end?

Our troops have been called peacekeepers and peacemakers. What an irony when there is no peace to keep or make. I recognize that our soldiers are providing necessary aid to hundreds of thousands of civilians, but they are also giving that same aid to the warring factions. In doing so, they are indirectly feeding the war. Our humanitarian role has been reduced to a bottomless intravenous bag sustaining a killing machine. Are we doing more harm than if we were not there at all?

It is absolutely unacceptable to me to see the loss of one Canadian soldier in this war. It is not that we are scared or uncommitted or that we do not care, but losing Canadian lives in a situation where no one can win is a position I cannot sanction.

I believe that the actions our government now takes can provide Canada with a masterful role as a moral leader and a defender of world peace.

In conclusion, I sincerely believe that our initiative will enable the Government of Canada to play a leading role and also to be a leader in the protection of world peace.

This requires a plan for peace that demands an international political will to end the war. We expect a diplomatic intervention and nothing less than an ultimatum to all of the aggressors to negotiate peace.

The events as they have unfolded in Bosnia focused our hearts and minds on one inescapable conclusion. I am of the opinion that we cannot stay there as conditions now exist. We have an opportunity to show leadership as we state our expectation for peace to be made. If it is not met then we must leave.

Foreign AffairsGovernment Orders

1:25 p.m.

Bloc

Paul Mercier Bloc Blainville—Deux-Montagnes, QC

Mr. Speaker, it is with interest and emotion that I listened to what the hon. member had to say. I say emotion because I myself participated in a UN operation during four years, in the Congo, from 1961 to 1965, and I was lucky enough to get out of there in one piece.

I appreciate the concern shown by the hon. member who is wondering if our soldiers should risk their lives or not. From this issue arises another rather technical question for which I have no answer and on which I was hoping this debate might shed some light. Should we or should we not ask the UN to give our soldiers broader powers to defend themselves when they are attacked, should we or should we not give them the right to retaliate and even patrol certain areas, at the risk of alienating the people and leading them to misinterpret our role, since retaliation would of course be seen as an act of aggression?

If we decide to give our soldiers broader powers to defend themselves, we are putting their lives in danger since retaliation does involve some risks. But then, if we decide not to give them more leeway, we are also putting them at risk, since they will be left defenceless during an attack.

Foreign AffairsGovernment Orders

1:25 p.m.

Reform

Jan Brown Reform Calgary Southeast, AB

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the question that was asked. I would like to say just a couple of things. I am like him. I am not a technocrat. The question he asked was one he stated would be very difficult to answer.

I have to say how difficult it was given my background to write this speech. I came to this issue with my heart and my mind. The questions as I framed them were the ones that I felt comfortable I could provide a response to. I do believe that it is up to our diplomatic community to make a decision regarding the nature of the questions as you asked them.

Foreign AffairsGovernment Orders

1:25 p.m.

Liberal

John Cannis Liberal Scarborough Centre, ON

Mr. Speaker, I have a comment more than a question to make to the hon. member.

She indicated we cannot stay there and that we must make peace and get out. In order for us to accomplish peace we have to invest more time in understanding the region and its peoples.

I attended the briefing yesterday and heard from our military people that they too are sometimes very confused as to who is doing what. There are conflicting stories continuously coming from the media. I am not sure what station it was but I followed a program on TV last night emphasizing how these people are being persecuted and that cleansing is taking place. I am very confused about who to believe, what to believe, what paper to read and so on.

There is no question that we all want peace, however, the member for Kamloops made a statement earlier that it is country against country and nation against nation and region against region and the Greeks against the Macedonians. I would like to make the point that when we get information it is a matter of presenting the facts as they are.

What if we keep on referring to certain resolutions the United Nations has made in the past? It recognizes FYROM or the former Yugoslavia Republic of Macedonia. We should keep on referring to it as such as the name was approved by the United Nations and agreed upon by both parties. All we are doing here is adding fuel to the fire.

I read a sports column the other day about breaking down the groups in the various European soccer competitions that are to take place next year. The newspaper stated that Greece will be in this section and Macedonia will be in another section. I think we have to help ourselves by presenting the facts as they are unless they are consistently presented as FYROM or the former Yugoslavia Republic of Macedonia.

Foreign AffairsGovernment Orders

1:30 p.m.

Bonavista—Trinity—Conception Newfoundland & Labrador

Liberal

Fred Mifflin LiberalParliamentary Secretary to Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs

Mr. Speaker, I feel honoured to rise and speak on this subject today for a number of reasons.

First, I think the fact that the Prime Minister has seen fit to encourage a debate of this nature so early in the 35th Parliament is I believe a tribute to our peacekeepers and the kind of operations that Canada has become expert in over a number of years.

Second, I would like to point out what a-

Foreign AffairsGovernment Orders

1:30 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Kilger)

I regret the intervention to the parliamentary secretary. I would ask for his indulgence and possibly that of the House. It has been my error or omission following the request from the Reform Party which had indicated earlier in this debate that it was splitting its questions into 10 and 5.

I hope that with your consent I might recognize the member for Nanaimo-Cowichan. I would ask the parliamentary secretary to please help me.

Foreign AffairsGovernment Orders

1:30 p.m.

Liberal

Fred Mifflin Liberal Bonavista—Trinity—Conception, NL

Mr. Speaker, seeing as how I forgot to congratulate you on your appointment, I think I should pay you back by allowing the Reform Party to speak on this subject.

Foreign AffairsGovernment Orders

1:30 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Kilger)

I thank the parliamentary secretary.

Foreign AffairsGovernment Orders

1:30 p.m.

Reform

Bob Ringma Reform Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC

Mr. Speaker, I did not jump up when you called the hon. member for Bonavista-Trinity-Conception out of turn because I have such esteem for the gentleman, having known him over so many years. I was quite attentive to what it was he was going to say and would have held my peace.

I will be very brief about the customary niceties of this maiden speech in order to save time for debate material on this subject of peacekeeping.

First of all, I would like to congratulate the hon. member for Welland-St. Catharines-Thorold for being elected Speaker of this House and yourself for your appointment as acting speaker. As far as I was concerned, it was a small victory for democracy which we try to improve little by little.

I would also like to thank my wife, Paula, for 40 years of unflagging support for me and in particular for the last two years of support.

It is customary here to describe one's constituency. Let us just say that if one was to embellish all of the descriptions of constituencies heard so far in the House then that would describe Nanaimo-Cowichan. It cuts a swath of beauty from the tranquil Gulf Islands right across Vancouver Island to the wild and rugged west coast.

To my constituents in Nanaimo-Cowichan, I thank them for the honour of representing them in Ottawa. I will try to help you understand what is happening in Ottawa if I understand it myself. However, I will certainly represent your interests in Ottawa and not Ottawa's interests to you.

This brings us to the issue of the day which is peacekeeping and more particularly the situation in the former Yugoslavia. What do my constituents think? I believe that the people of Nanaimo-Cowichan, in common with many other Canadians, think as follows. We are proud of the record of Canadian peacekeepers. We are very proud of the troops who are there doing that job at the moment, the Royal 22e Régiment de Valcartier.

However, Canada seems to be stumbling at the moment because of a lack of international leadership and political will.

We also appear to be short of armed forces personnel to properly meet all current obligations. Therefore, the government's proposed review of foreign affairs and defence policies is timely and welcomed. We must determine if our peacekeeping activities are in accordance with these policies or should these policies be changed.

My constituents see in the Bosnian situation the enmity of hundreds of years of religious and ethnic differences. There appears to be no way to end this hatred. At the same time, Canadians recognize that enmity of this sort is not confined to the Balkans. It is a world-wide problem which leads to atrocities and wars. The world community therefore must find better ways of dealing with it. The United Nations, NATO and the European Community are not perceived as being effective in dealing with the problem.

In response to the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs' statement this morning that he had been talking to his colleagues in France and Britain, it would be helpful to this House for us to know in

what detail. I am really curious to know what France and Britain are doing and what are their thoughts. What are the thoughts of all of the European Community vis-a-vis this terrible situation in the old Yugoslavia?

My constituents have images of Canadian soldiers trying hard to help and sometimes being humiliated in the process. This is very much resented, to the point where some say: "Let us get our personnel out of there". Balancing this is the view that our troops do prevent many atrocities in their own sector and enable humanitarian aid to be given. Some therefore say that we must stay for humanitarian reasons alone. These views of my constituents seem to be in consonance with the views of other Canadians.

There are factors other than my constituents' views to be considered with regard to Bosnia. With regard to Bosnia, as opposed to Croatia where at least there is a peace accord to keep, take this into consideration. Without a change of attitude on the part of the combatants, there appears to be no solution. If the status quo is maintained peacekeepers could be there indefinitely.

The next point is that the withdrawal of peacekeepers leads to the spectre of genocide and more atrocities. Complete withdrawal leads to the spectre of war as some of the surrounding countries such as Albania, Bulgaria, Hungary, Romania, Greece, Turkey and the former Russian states move in to help their particular friends.

Against this background we must identify our role as parliamentarians. First, we must listen to our constituents. Second, we must with haste, re-examine our foreign affairs and defence policies which the government has stated it will do. Third, we must keep the Canadian public informed. Fourth, as parliamentarians, we must show leadership in finding a solution.

It seems to me that leadership is the key if there is any solution to be found. We in this Chamber must take the lead and we as a country must take the lead.

Therefore if the status quo is unacceptable, we must change it. The protagonists in Bosnia must be forced to the negotiating table and kept there until they come up with a peace plan that others can supervise. Canada alone cannot make this happen, but surely the world community can.

Therefore it seems to me that Canada must use its credibility and its stature as a peacekeeper to provide the necessary leadership. We must first talk with the United States, Britain and France and then with NATO, the NATO associates which are coming on line, and the United Nations. We must insist that collectively we come up with a plan that will force the creation of a peace plan by the combatants. If we cannot achieve this, Canada should then think of withdrawing.

I will conclude by underlining the earlier words of my colleague, the hon. member for Saanich-Gulf Islands, that more peace talks are scheduled in Geneva on February 10.

Canada must take the lead by hosting a conference here in Ottawa before that date. Participants should include all countries with forces now in the former Yugoslavia. This conference which we propose must of itself or through the United Nations issue a clear ultimatum to the belligerents that either they come up with an enforceable peace plan or they accept the withdrawal of UN forces. If the conference cannot agree to this and show concrete progress toward peace in Bosnia, Canada should announce its intention to withdraw at the end of its current commitment in April.

Foreign AffairsGovernment Orders

1:40 p.m.

Liberal

Ron MacDonald Liberal Dartmouth, NS

Mr. Speaker, it is the first time I have stood up since the election and I want to congratulate you on your appointment to the Chair. Having known you for a long time I know you will do your very best in looking after the interests of members of this place from all political persuasions, including the independents I might add.

The member opposite just gave a very good overview of his views about Canada's role vis-à-vis peacekeeping and the former Yugoslav republic of Bosnia, the sovereign state of Bosnia.

I too have many constituents who share a view on this, coming from the riding of Dartmouth which has a very large number of individuals who are employed by the Department of National Defence. We have Shearwater there. Many individuals who work in the Canadian navy reside in my area. I can certainly say that the issue of Canada's role as a peacekeeper is first and foremost in their minds.

I have a brother who has just come back from perhaps a less strenuous tour of duty, but nevertheless one which was fraught with some danger. He was in Cambodia as a member of the UN force that was there during the Cambodian elections.

In commenting on the remarks of my hon. colleague, it is fairly clear that the Canadian public is very supportive of Canada's historic and leading role as the world's peacekeeper. Even in times of great fiscal difficulty when we are trying to figure out how we are going to pay for the essential services Canadians have come to expect, the Canadian public generally is extremely supportive of the efforts the men and women in uniform from the Canadian Armed Forces have played abroad.

However the Bosnian situation is quite different from what we have been used to in the past. Out of all of the peacekeeping missions we have been on, this is one where no one could question whether or not there was a peace to keep. Clearly there is no peace to keep. Of the warring factions, the most aggressive faction which did not accept the referendum on Bosnia, the Serbian faction, has clearly indicated through its actions over the last year that as much as it may like to pay lip service to the fact that the United Nations may be trying to do something to

bring about peace it has shown time and time again that it is not prepared to deal with the forces there in a fair manner.

The people in my area have been seized with this issue just as they have in the hon. member's riding. The people in my area as much as they want to see Canada continue to play its role feel very strongly that the lack of substance and the lack of follow-up in many of the threats that were made in resolutions by the United Nations have clearly put our peacekeepers at a disadvantage. Every time that the United Nations gets up and tells one or all of the warring sides to: "Do this or else", the or else has never come.

I would just conclude my very brief comments on the hon. member's remarks by indicating that the people in Dartmouth as well are very concerned. They support the proud tradition of Canadian peacekeeping but in this particular instance they are asking the Government of Canada to take a lead role to ensure that there is a peace made before our people are asked to keep a peace that simply does not exist.

Foreign AffairsGovernment Orders

1:45 p.m.

Reform

Bob Ringma Reform Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC

Mr. Speaker, since the hon. member is obviously in accord with my remarks, as apparently are our constituents, there really is no reply to be made.

Foreign AffairsGovernment Orders

1:45 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Kilger)

We have two minutes remaining on questions and comments. Hopefully we can share that two minutes evenly between the question and the answer.

Foreign AffairsGovernment Orders

1:45 p.m.

NDP

Svend Robinson NDP Burnaby—Kingsway, BC

Mr. Speaker, I will try to be brief.

I want to express my concern about the position that has been taken by Reform Party members, including the member for Calgary Southeast, who said: "I do not believe anything we do as Canadian soldiers will make a difference". We are making a difference in a very important way in that area in getting humanitarian aid through and certainly in helping to save lives.

My question is very straight forward. Instead of Canadian troops and the United Nations deciding to leave that troubled area of Bosnia and Croatia because of the failure to date of peace plans primarily because of Bosnian-Serb intransigence, would he and his colleagues be prepared to consider another alternative? That alternative is that the United Nations finally get serious and give the troops on the ground the power they need and have been asking for through their commanding officers to enforce a peace and to stop the cycle of bloodshed and destruction.

Would he agree to a change in the rules of engagement of the United Nations and finally strengthening that position so that no longer will we have the cycle of bloodshed and destruction that we see at the very least in the six protected areas of Bosnia?

Foreign AffairsGovernment Orders

1:45 p.m.

Reform

Bob Ringma Reform Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for Burnaby-Kingsway.

I would agree to a discussion at least in the United Nations with respect to our troops and a revision of the rules to ensure that they are properly protective of our troops.

The thing that I believe the hon. member is missing is that for us to enforce a peace in Bosnia when there is no peace agreement there has the implication of bringing in tens of thousands of troops to have this happen. This is the point that I and some others have been making. We must first bring the warring factions in Bosnia-not in the other part of Croatia, but in Bosnia-to the table and insist that they come up with a plan. There has to be a plan before they can so-call, keep the peace.

Foreign AffairsGovernment Orders

1:45 p.m.

Bonavista—Trinity—Conception Newfoundland & Labrador

Liberal

Fred Mifflin LiberalParliamentary Secretary to Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs

Mr. Speaker, my preliminary remarks stand.

I want to congratulate you and say that I am delighted to stand and speak on this subject. It is a tribute to our men and women in uniform involved in peacekeeping operations, indeed to the Canadian military and to the institution of this House where members are allowed to speak without fear of being castigated by their whips and party officials.

With this kind of debate and the number of speakers we have heard this morning I have found the level of the debate to be very enlightening, non-partisan and what the Canadian public is looking forward to seeing, not just in the early days of this Parliament but as the 35th Parliament of Canada continues to operate.

I have had to change what initially was my approach because of the time. I will try to finish by two o'clock when Question Period starts although I may have to spill over.

What I want to do very briefly is look at why Canada has become so expert in peacekeeping. Why has it become the acceptable operation? We can look at some of the things that have changed that. Perhaps we can look at the future of these kinds of peacekeeping operations and then suggest some ground rules that may need to be looked at because we are now involved in a different kind of operation.

If we go back to the early beginnings of peacekeeping, I guess it really started during the cold war when most UN operations were paralysed except for peacekeeping in areas of the world that were either of little importance to the superpowers or the area of operation could be dangerous to the superpowers' interest.

I believe our first substantive peacekeeping operation took place in response to a United Nations request for officer observers in Kashmir that is strategically located between India and Pakistan. Canada agreed after some negotiation to send four officer observers from the army in 1949. The following year this was increased to eight officer observers and in fact was changed from the militia to the regular army. It is my understanding that this was the beginnings of peacekeeping.

That was in the late 1940s and we are still involved. We are still engaged in that operation. Shortly after, our participation in the United Nations Truce Supervisory Organization, UNTSO, took place in the Middle East. We are still there.

In 1954 Canada became involved in the International Control Commission in Indo-China. Although we were there for a different reason we are still there.

In 1956 Canada's military peacekeeping operation increased tremendously and dramatically when the Suez crisis erupted. The involvement of a Canadian who was then the external affairs minister, the Right Hon. Lester B. Pearson, is well known. We stayed there until our peacekeepers were kicked out by Mr. Nasser in 1967.

Our government contributed a battalion to Cyprus in 1964. It was supposed to last for six months. It has lasted for 30 years. As the hon. Minister of National Defence mentioned we still have peacekeepers in Cyprus. It is not the battalion that we had before, but we still have 10 members of the Canadian forces in Cyprus.

What am I saying? I am saying that in our involvement in peacekeeping operations, 44 since the first one, we have regrettably lost, not including Korea, 98 young Canadians of the 100,000 young men and women in uniform. That is our peacekeeping record. If we examine the operations we have to ask how Canada established this reputation. Was it because our population was benign? Was it because of the nature of our military forces? Was it because we had an extraordinary interest in world events? Was it because we were a middle power?

I do not think there is a simple answer but we need to look at some of the operations individually. We were involved in Cyprus because we were a NATO power interposed between two NATO countries. We were involved, I would suggest, in the International Control Commission in the mid-1950s because we were a western democracy.

We were involved in the Middle East operations, I suppose primarily because in both world wars we established a kind of professionalism and a general purpose force that was deployable, had good logistics, a good reputation and the ability to do it. As each of these 44 operations continued the success of one fuelled the other. Whenever a troubled part of the world lent itself to peacekeeping who was going to be called? Canada.

While the operations that took place until a few years ago were not standard in the sense of being the same in each operation, they were more or less, with the possible exception of the Belgian Congo to which reference has already been made and Korea, peacekeeping operations in the sense that they were policing. They became acceptable to Canadians because we as a military force and as a country made a change. We made a difference. We helped to keep the world a better place in which to live. Our military people became expert in it and it became acceptable, with minor exception, to all political parties.

A few years ago at the end of the cold war, the demise of the Berlin wall and the invasion of a foreign country attempting to take over the sovereignty of another country-and I refer now to the gulf war-the ground rules changed. After some discussion in the House and with some division of Canadian opinion we in Canada became involved in the gulf war.

After the gulf war I would suggest the situation changed. To begin with, the definition of peacekeeping did not stop at policing. It involved-and I am using simple terms-peacemaking which involved enforcement. It involved humanitarian aid which called up support in the feeding of people and the protection of lives. It involved other kinds of operations like for example in Cambodia with helping to run the country until a government was put in place.

Other things happened as well. The power of the United Nations changed in what was referred to as a new world order. It is what many of us in the House today have made oblique reference to as perhaps a world disorder.

Has that made a difference to the intensity and the number of operations in which we are going to be involved? I suggest it has. It is my thesis that we will see more requirements for peacekeeping in its general sense. We will see more in the intensity and more in the requirements to get other countries including Canada involved in the sovereign affairs of other countries.

I say that because in the 179 countries in the world today there are 4,000 languages. Some 60 of these countries have populations of one million or less and 40 of them have populations of less than 200,000. More important, and I think this is germane to the argument, less than 10 per cent of these countries have a homogeneous ethnic population and less than 5 per cent have an ethnic group that accounts for more than 75 per cent of the population. What we are seeing is an explosion of nations downward, to the point where they are really comprising the smallest ethnic and religious groups.

If we add to that the low levels of tolerance that seem to be dominant in the world today, poorer tolerance for religious, social and ethnic differences, we are going to see more requirements for peacekeepers.

What should our response be in Canada? Our response has to be relative to what it is we can do. What can we do? I want to suggest at the outset to the House and to anybody listening to this presentation that whether we stay, participate, do not participate or withdraw, it will never be related to the will of the Canadian forces in the sense that they will do the job they have been asked to do.

Our history recalls Canadian participation in an operation that heretofore had been impossible to achieve. I refer members of the House to Vimy Ridge. As a Newfoundlander I recall the heroic action of the Royal Newfoundland Regiment in 1916 when practically every member of that battalion was wiped out in a few hours. Let us make no mistake about it. It will not be a withdrawal because we do not want to stay.

However we have to look at some of the ground rules. Has the United Nations changed in its ability to control what is happening in the leadership of these operations, in the command and control of these operations? Have the mandates been clear? I recall a speech many of us would recall made in the Congress by General MacArthur when he returned from Korea. I remember his last resounding message was: "Of the corps, of the corps, of the corps".

I remember a presentation when I was a young officer being made by perhaps the father of peacekeeping, General E. L. M. Burns who commanded the Middle East involvement in our first real sizeable contribution to peacekeeping. If he had a refrain it was: where is the mandate, where is the mandate, where is the mandate? Without a mandate we can do nothing. Without an effective United Nations what we do may not be the right thing. It may not be done properly. It may not be timely. Where we go depends on the support we have, not just in Canada but in the world at large.

In my concluding remarks I would say that before we become involved as a country in peacekeeping operations we must check to see what is our mandate. What is the ability of the United Nations to command and control these particular operations? We can look at our requirements because of the kind of country we are. Because of our makeup it is in our interests to be involved in any activity that makes the world a more stable place to live.

It is also incumbent upon us to ensure that the things we do will not jeopardize the resources of our country, to say not the least of putting our young men and women in uniform in harm's way more so than we should be expected to do as a sovereign country.

Foreign AffairsGovernment Orders

1:55 p.m.

The Speaker

It being two o'clock p.m., pursuant to Standing Order 30(5) the House will now proceed to statements by members, pursuant to Standing Order 31.

Home Buyers PlanStatements By Members

1:55 p.m.

Liberal

Paul Steckle Liberal Huron—Bruce, ON

Mr. Speaker, over the past few weeks I have received a number of calls and letters of support of the extension of the home buyers plan which is due to expire on March 2 of this year.

In a recent letter on this subject a local real estate company referred to a survey by the Canadian Real Estate Association. This survey found that 86 per cent of first-time home buyers said the plan was instrumental in their decision to buy a home. Furthermore, 80 per cent of respondents said it was imperative to repay their first RSP loans and 41 per cent said they would repay it faster than the program required. According to the letter the CMHC found that a full 26 per cent of 1992 housing sales involved the use of this plan.

I am in full support of the home buyers plan and urge the finance minister not only to extend the program but to make appropriate changes to the law so that this type of plan is a permanent option to home buyers.

At this time of fiscal restraint we should be looking at exactly this sort of initiative, one that does not cost the government or the taxpayers any money.

The Quebec Sepharad CommunityStatements By Members

1:55 p.m.

Bloc

Gilles Duceppe Bloc Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC

Mr. Speaker, I attended last Sunday the convention of the Quebec Sepharad Community. I noted that this community is very active not only within the Quebec Jewish Community as a whole but also in Quebec society itself.

The Sepharad people are an example of community involvement for all Quebecers. Besides their strong solidarity as a group, they make ceaseless efforts to play a role in today's Quebec.

The exchanges and debates which took place during this convention allowed for a better knowledge, thus a better understanding of the various political tendencies in Quebec.

Such opportunities can only enrich democracy. I would like to thank and congratulate the Quebec Sepharad Community for holding such events.

Robert BurnsStatements By Members

1:55 p.m.

Reform

John Williams Reform St. Albert, AB

Mr. Speaker, I rise today, on January 25, to recognize the anniversary of the birth of the great Scottish poet, Robert Burns, who was born on this day in 1759.

Scottish people around the world rise today to toast his immortal memory. He was but a poor and lowly farmer but recognition of his greatness is seen in the words of the song written in his honour more than 100 years after his death:

Let kings and courtiers rise and fall, this world has many more,

But brightly shines above them all the star of Robbie Burns.

manpower TRAININGStatements By Members

January 25th, 1994 / 1:55 p.m.

Liberal

Jean-Robert Gauthier Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON

Mr. Speaker, occupational training is one of the best means to reduce unemployment, to retrain older workers and even to eliminate poverty. By refusing to allow its French minority to fully participate in the Ontario Training and Adjustment Board, the Ontario government is denying them access to that training. Because of that, thousands of Franco-Ontarians are deprived of training.

When renegotiating the federal-provincial agreement on education next March, the federal government should take into account the serious deficiencies of the Ontario Training and Adjustment Board and their impact on the assimilation of francophones and require the Ontario government to create a manpower training and adjustment board effectively serving all Canadians living in Ontario.

Registered Retirement Savings PlanStatements By Members

2:05 p.m.

Liberal

Beryl Gaffney Liberal Nepean, ON

Mr. Speaker, RRSPs provide self-financed pensions for Canadians who do not benefit from government or company sponsored plans.

I would like to quote a Nepean resident, Mr. Denis Deschenes, who states:

I am 42 years old and I do not enjoy the benefits of a registered pension plan sponsored by an employer. My future retirement income depends solely on my contributions to a personal and spousal RRSP; thereby ensuring that my wife and I will not have to rely on government during retirement years.

That our government would now consider altering this to generate more revenue today is disastrous and self-defeating.

I recognize that our country is facing difficult financial times. But, I resent having penalties imposed on my hard work and financial planning. The RRSP is the only pension vehicle my wife and I have.

If the government wishes to restrict those of us who depend solely on an RRSP as a source of future income, then I strongly suggest that it apply this restriction fairly to all.

Sustainable DevelopmentStatements By Members

2:05 p.m.

Liberal

John Finlay Liberal Oxford, ON

Mr. Speaker, I think I have my remarks timed a little more precisely today so that I can take this opportunity to wish you well in your serious and important duties in this Chamber after your election. I trust that you and the others appointed to help you will have enough judgment, patience, sensitivity and good humour to put up with 200 fledgling MPs. We will do our best.

I want to talk briefly on a topic of importance to all Canadians: sustainable development. In our government's red book "Creating Opportunity", sustainable development involves the integration of economic and environmental goals.

The previous Conservative government acted as if environmental concerns and job creation were diametrically opposed concepts. I disagree completely. It is my belief that there are many economic benefits, particularly future benefits, from tying job creation and technological innovation to environmental protection and concerns. In fact all our decisions in the House should recognize-

Sustainable DevelopmentStatements By Members

2:05 p.m.

The Speaker

The hon. member in using such flattering words used up a little bit of his time, but we will catch him next time down the road.

High-Speed TrainStatements By Members

2:05 p.m.

Bloc

René Laurin Bloc Joliette, QC

Mr. Speaker, after the contract for the construction of military helicopters was cancelled, the Bloc Quebecois repeatedly insisted that the money saved be reinvested in the development of a high-speed train in the Quebec-Windsor corridor.

In 1991, the Ontario-Quebec Rapid Train Task Force recognized the significance of that project and its economic impact. The task force held extensive consultations during which the public pointed out the need to make the cities along that corridor more efficient if they are to succeed in a competitive market.

The project would create 120,000 direct jobs, plus hundreds of highly specialized and permanent jobs resulting from technology transfers and industrial agreements.

Despite all these benefits, the Prime Minister told the press that the introduction of a high-speed train was not a priority.

We are concerned about the lack of interest shown by the government in an innovative project that would create jobs, promote the use of leading-edge technologies and stimulate research and development in Canada and Quebec.

Alcohol ConsumptionStatements By Members

2:05 p.m.

Reform

Werner Schmidt Reform Okanagan Centre, BC

Mr. Speaker, today while reading the Globe and Mail I was struck most forcibly by the headline: ``Planned hangover merits sick pay''.

In Ontario it was recently ruled that it is acceptable, or at least tolerable, for someone to receive benefits from intentionally getting drunk.

An employee of the Metro Housing Authority decided on a Friday that he would require a sick day on Monday because of the anticipated effects of excessive alcohol consumption over the weekend.

I rise before this House because I am sure this case was not an isolated incident. How often does this type of abuse occur? How long must hard working Canadians endure the fiscal reverberations of social irresponsibility and whimsical behaviour?

On behalf of outraged Canadians, this abuse must not be tolerated at any level. Honest and hard working individuals should not be the victims of other self-indulgent behaviour.