Debates of Nov. 16th, 1994

Computers For Schools

[Guy Arseneault, Liberal, Restigouche—Chaleur, NB]

Mr. Speaker, the students of my riding of Restigouche-Chaleur have benefited from a unique partnership of the government and three of North America's multinational software firms.

Organized by Industry Canada the computers for schools program is allocating hundreds of pieces of used government computer equipment to schools all over Canada.

My riding of Restigouche-Chaleur has already received 20 new computers. This is recycling in the 1990s. In addition, the major computer companies allow old computer programs to be transferred in order to benefit students. This is understanding in the 1990s.

A partnership between the public and private sectors is benefiting New Brunswick students and helping nurture a culture of learning and innovation. I would like to congratulate all those involved.

Louis Riel

[Suzanne Tremblay, Bloc, Rimouski—Témiscouata, QC]

Mr. Speaker, 109 years ago today, Louis David Riel, the Métis hero, was hanged, an event that caused turmoil and indignation among French Canadians. A crowd of fifty thousand gathered on the Champ-de-Mars, in Montreal, to hear Honoré Mercier speak his now famous words of tribute.

The prime minister of the day, John A. Macdonald, was careful not to have Riel tried in his native province, where he had led the struggle to have the fundamental rights of Canadian Métis respected.

In order to redress this historic injustice, the Bloc Quebecois is today tabling a bill to revoke the conviction of Louis Riel.

Louis Riel was hanged because he was a Métis, because he was a francophone, because he went to the defence of his nation. His execution by hanging is one of the darkest moments in our history. A refusal to acknowledge it is a refusal to understand the present and a refusal to build a future.

Barrie's North Collegiate Ski Team

[Ed Harper, Reform, Simcoe Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I rise in this House today to congratulate the student athletes of Barrie's North Collegiate.

The junior boys Nordic ski team has been awarded the prestigious honour of representing Canada at the 1995 International Schoolsport Federation ski event. They will be travelling to Italy in February to compete with other student athletes from around the world.

It is encouraging that these young people have chosen to channel their energy and pursue athletic endeavours. They are a source of pride to their parents, their classmates, their teachers and their community.

I believe it is important to recognize that the vast majority of our young people are hard working and want to be involved and committed citizens of Canada.

The team is raising $15,000 for this trip from private sources and I encourage their efforts.

I congratulate the team members: Clayton Parent, Joe Tuck, Matt Goodman, Doug Smith, Chris Hogan, and Jason Van Noortwyk, and their coaches Ann Scully and Cathy Cudmore on receiving this honour. I wish them all the very best in Italy.

Louis Riel

[Ronald J. Duhamel, Liberal, St. Boniface, MB]

Mr. Speaker, many Manitobans and Canadians remember Louis Riel today.

This morning in my riding the Manitoba Metis Federation held a ceremony to mark the 109th anniversary of his death, to recognize Metis Week and proclaim November 16 as Louis Riel Day.

On March 10, 1992, in response to a government petition, I applauded the government's gesture of recognizing Louis Riel as the founder of Manitoba and his contribution to Canada. That same day, I requested that we go one step further and recognize him as one of the fathers of Confederation. This is still my position.

Partners In Excellence Project

[John Cannis, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to bring to the attention of the House the co-operation that exists between corporations and high schools in Scarborough.

Recently Novopharm, a Scarborough based pharmaceutical firm, announced a partners in excellence project with Sir John A. Macdonald Collegiate Institute. The program will promote the study of science at the high school level.

The company will sponsor science related events such as the junior science olympics. It invites students to participate in a corporate environment. Students will gain hands on experience.

The school will have the opportunity to undertake exciting new and bold initiatives. Together Novopharm and Macdonald Collegiate will be able to offer the highest quality educational opportunities.

I would like to take this opportunity to compliment and congratulate Mr. Leslie Dan of Novopharm and Mr. Glen Tarver, principal of Macdonald Collegiate for their initiative in establishing this program.

Deficit Bonds

[Karen Kraft Sloan, Liberal, York—Simcoe, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to take this opportunity to put forward a proposal to help the Minister of Finance combat the deficit. This idea evolved from a town hall meeting at the Green Briar Senior Citizen Community Centre in Alliston.

These constituents suggested the issuance of a deficit bond which would enable the government to buy back foreign owned debt. This would be similar to the war bond concept used during World War II.

These senior citizens expressed their concern for the deficit and the impact it will have on future generations. They have also expressed their willingness to help the government in deficit reduction.

I urge the Minister of Finance to seriously consider this constructive suggestion as a means to curtail the deficit.

Social Program Reform

[Pauline Picard, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Speaker, a study commissioned by the Quebec health and social service council shows that the past four years have been particularly hard economic times for Canadians. Everyone suffered from the recession, but the hardest hit were the disadvantaged who were unable to re-enter the labour force.

Commenting on the social reform and emphasizing the fiscal restraints imposed by governments, Pierre Fortin, an economist, sums up the situation as follows: "There is no need to turn everything upside down on account of a temporary slump. The danger is that a system that our parents and grandparents took 40 years to build will be destroyed".

We must not do away with our social security system at the first sign of trouble. In such circumstances, the role of government must be to help the disadvantaged, not to crush them.

Canada Pension Plan

[Cliff Breitkreuz, Reform, Yellowhead, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I have just completed a series of town hall meetings in my riding about the desperate state of Canada's social programs.

Constituents were dismayed to learn that in just 15 years current social safety nets plus interest may consume 100 per cent of federal spending. But what upset them most was the fact that they are getting ripped off worse than they thought by the federal government.

They thought they were paying into the Canada pension plan as an investment for their retirement. But because of government mismanagement, the CPP fund is short hundreds of billions of dollars which means that contributions are little more than a payroll tax.

Constituents want to know why the Minister of Human Resources Development did not address the CPP problem in his discussion paper. They wonder why the minister is not moving away from the present debt ridden social welfare state.

Michel Bellemare

[Eugène Bellemare, Liberal, Carleton—Gloucester, ON]

It is, as you can no doubt understand, Mr. Speaker, with great pleasure and pride that I rise in this House to announce that, on Monday, my son Michel, a young lawyer aged 27, was elected to the municipal council of Ottawa-Carleton.

With a population of three quarters of a million, the Regional Municipality of Ottawa-Carleton is made up of 11 local municipalities, including the Municipality of Gloucester, where Michel was elected. I join his wife, Nathalie, as well as our entire family and his team in applauding this great victory.

Canadian Culture

[Pat O'Brien, Liberal, London—Middlesex, ON]

Mr. Speaker, our culture is our identity. It instils in us a pride and enables us as Canadians to define ourselves and our place in the international community. Our arts, sports, languages, natural parks, heritage sites and multicultural heritage all contribute to the diversity of Canadian culture.

With the globalization of trade and the rapid expansion of information technology Canadian culture will play an integral part in driving our economy. Agencies such as the CBC, the Canada Council, the National Library, our museums and archives support the culture of a smaller population living in a vast area of land.

With growing competition from our American neighbours it is now more important than ever for our government to ensure adequate Canadian content in television programming, radio and books. We must continue to develop policies that make our unique culture accessible to Canadians.

Regina Rams Football Team

[Bernie Collins, Liberal, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Mr. Speaker, I am proud to bring this news to the attention of the House of Commons.

The news is that the Regina Rams, our Canadian junior football league team, has captured their 12th Canadian title by a 52 to 6 victory in Saturday's Canada bowl in Montreal. This is the second straight Canadian junior football league title for the Rams who won their first national crown in 1966.

Special recognition should go to coach Frank McCrystal. He has been a part of nine championships, four as head coach, two as an assistant coach, and three as a player.

This team of energetic young Canadians has been outstanding and hard working all season. The fans in Saskatchewan are very proud. I want to congratulate the team and wish them well in their next season as well.

Foreign Policy

[Maud Debien, Bloc, Laval East, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in its majority report tabled yesterday on Canada's foreign policy review, the Liberal majority shows an incomprehensible mistrust towards the United States, which is still our main trading partner. Instead of noting the continentalization of our economy, the Liberal majority has adopted an unhealthy attitude towards the U.S.

The report is very eloquent in this regard. When dealing with Canada's trade relations with the Asia-Pacific region, it talks about challenges, but on the subject of trade with the United States, it talks about problems. These very different terms reflect the Liberals' mental block towards our southern neighbours. The existential problem of Canada, torn by a double identity, will not be solved through this stubborn refusal to accept the American reality. Obviously, the Liberals have not managed to extricate themselves from the vicious circle in which the Canadian establishment has been caught for decades.

1995 Canada Winter Games

[Charlie Penson, Reform, Peace River, AB]

Mr. Speaker, today is an important day in the Peace River country of Alberta. In 95 days, beginning February 19, 1995, the Canada winter games will be held in Grand Prairie.

I along with the people of the Grand Prairie area would like to take this opportunity to welcome everybody across Canada to the 1995 winter games. I would also like to congratulate all the volunteers for all their hard work and dedication to this national celebration of amateur sport.

Grand Prairie is ready to host the best ever Canada Games and is looking forward to welcoming all Canadians from February 19 to March 4, 1995.

Post-Secondary Education

[Jag Bhaduria, Liberal, Markham—Whitchurch-Stouffville, ON]

While the reduction of the deficit remains one of the

most important objectives of the government, it is imperative that it should not be done at the expense of the education of our young people. Today's student demonstration on the Hill underlines this principle.

More than 900,000 full time post-secondary students could be directly affected by the government's proposal to cut back on transfer payments earmarked for post-secondary education to the provinces. The present level of funding for post-secondary education must be maintained to academically and technically equip young Canadians as they head into the 21st century.

As the red book states, the government has a direct interest in ensuring that our young people have the best possible opportunity to gain the skills and knowledge needed to lead productive and self-sufficient lives. This noble principle must be followed through.

Law Of The Sea

[Derek Wells, Liberal, South Shore, NS]

Mr. Speaker, 12 years ago the United Nations law of the sea treaty was adopted. Today that treaty comes into force.

This treaty, which took over 10 years to negotiate, provides Canada with sovereign rights for exploring and exploiting the natural resources of approximately 1,500,000 square kilometres of continental shelf off our Arctic, Pacific and Atlantic coasts. The treaty also gives Canada jurisdiction over the living resources within a 200 mile limit.

Although the treaty is now in force and many of its provisions have been implemented in state practice and accepted as customary international law, over 70 countries including Canada have yet to ratify it.

Over the past year Canada has taken steps beyond this treaty to protect its fish stocks. Perhaps now we should consider playing a leading role in calling for and participating in the widespread ratification of this treaty.

Social Program Reform

[Raymond Lavigne, Liberal, Verdun—Saint-Paul, QC]

Mr. Speaker, six weeks have gone by since the green paper on social reform was published. Canadians are fully involved in the debate.

The Department of Human Resources Development has received 12,000 telephone inquiries. One hundred and fourteen thousand copies of the green book, including 33,000 in French, and 210,000 summaries have been distributed. Since late October, 190 members of Parliament have held public consultations in their ridings and 80 national organizations have appeared before the parliamentary committee.

Canadians know that changes are needed. They want to get involved and they want to debate ideas. The government is ready to listen to all Canadians.

Post-Secondary Education

[Len Taylor, NDP, The Battlefords—Meadow Lake, SK]

Mr. Speaker, the federal Liberals' review of social programs is giving every indication that funding to universities and colleges throughout Canada will be cut and the individual cost to post-secondary students will increase.

Saskatchewan Premier Roy Romanow said of the federal government: "From our point of view the federal government is saying that debt is no good for government but it is okay for students".

Yesterday my colleague from Winnipeg Transcona reminded us that as a nation we are expecting Canada's young people to pay off a national debt not of their making and now it seems we encourage them to accumulate personal debt as well in the process.

If education, knowledge and skills are required to provide the basis for a healthy economy, the role of government must include ways to increase accessibility to the institutions that can make education, knowledge and skills available.

[Lucien Bouchard, Bloc, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, there is a big demonstration today of students who are rightly concerned about the impact of social program reform on the funding of post-secondary education. By cutting transfers to the provinces, the federal government will force a substantial rise in tuition fees and seriously restrict access to university education.

My question is for the Minister of Human Resources Development. Since the students' concerns are well founded and given the extent of the criticism of his reform, does the minister promise today to reconsider his government's intention for financing post-secondary education?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, as the hon. member knows, in the green book we present several options. One is to continue with the existing status quo, a formula that was put in place by a government of which he was a member which reduced transfer

payments to Quebec alone of a quarter of a billion dollars. He was a member of that government. I know the hon. member is well versed in this matter, and that is one of the options.

Another option we are presenting is a way of finding a formula that would add an additional $10 billion to the funding of higher education, $10 billion that would go for funding laboratories and libraries and increased accessibility.

[Lucien Bouchard, Bloc, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, this is a government which definitely intends to cut transfers to the provinces for post-secondary education and thinks that it can hide behind a government which I was proud to quit.

Do the minister, the government and the governing party realize that by cutting federal contributions to the provinces, the reform of social programs will add to students' indebtedness and transfer part of the federal debt problem onto them?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. Leader of the Opposition had so much pride that he did not dare open his mouth or leave a government at the time when the Conservative government cut transfer payments to Quebec by a quarter of a billion dollars. That is how much pride he has. Why did he not speak up then if he is so strong now?

I will simply point out one fundamental fact. There is nothing in our proposal that says we will cut the transfer payments to provinces. The provinces today receive over $6 billion in transfer payments. Ten years from now they will receive $6 billion in transfer payments. All this talk about a reduction of $2.6 billion is pure rubbish.

[Lucien Bouchard, Bloc, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, I had so many reasons to leave that government I did not have time to express them all when I left.

How can the minister claim that the acquisition of knowledge is a primary goal of this government and the main method to encourage economic development when at the same time his reform will block access to university for thousands of Canadians and Quebecers?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, the first time I have ever been in a agreement with the hon. chief of the opposition is when he said there were so many reasons to leave the past government. The only question I have in return is why did he leave it so late?

I said in my answer to the previous question that we clearly have stated we will continue the transfer payments based on the formula in place now.

What we want to do, and this is why we are simply putting a proposal out for serious discussion and debate, is to find a formula that will add an additional $10 billion over the next 10 years, an additional $10 billion that can be used to provide further access for students who cannot get there now.

There are a quarter million Canadians in today's workforce who want to go back to college and university. We have to find a way of funding them. We have to find a way of improving the spaces, the facilities and the services.

That is the reason we have to find more money for the system and we want to do it on the basis of finding a fair allocation between government, the private sector and the students.

[Antoine Dubé, Bloc, Lévis, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is also for the Minister of Human Resources Development.

The minister persists in denying the negative impact of his reform on Canadian students' indebtedness and on accessibility to post-secondary education. By cutting transfer payments to provinces for post-secondary education, his reform will have the effect of at least doubling tuition fees in the very first year, according to the Association of Universities and Colleges of Canada.

How can the minister continue to claim that access to post-secondary education will not be reduced, considering the unprecedented increase in tuition fees triggered by his reform?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, I have never made those claims. What I have said in fact is that under the system we have now tuition fees have been rising at a rate of 10 per cent a year.

I want to point out, particularly to the member of the Bloc Quebecois, that is not our decision. That is a decision taken by provincial governments. They make decisions on education, not the federal government. It is the federal government that transfers the money. Unfortunately a lot of the money we transfer never ends up in the hands of the universities.