House of Commons Hansard #126 of the 35th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was program.

Topics

Canadian Ambassador To The United StatesStatements By Members

11:05 a.m.

Bloc

René Laurin Bloc Joliette, QC

Mr. Speaker, the Canadian ambassador to the U.S. is trying to muzzle Quebec's representatives in Washington by imposing a chaperon from the embassy at every one of their meetings.

Bloc Quebecois members strongly oppose such interference in provincial affairs by the Canadian ambassador. Quebec directly looks after its own interests in Paris, London, Tokyo, Mexico City and New York. Why is the federal government desperately trying to keep it from doing the same in Washington?

As long as Quebec remains part of Canada, the government must respect the basic principle whereby the provinces' constitutional jurisdiction also applies abroad.

Clearly, the flag war is on again, and the federal government as well as the Prime Minister must both assume full responsibility for the situation.

National Child DayStatements By Members

11:10 a.m.

Reform

Daphne Jennings Reform Mission—Coquitlam, BC

Mr. Speaker, I too rise to recognize that this Sunday is the second anniversary of National Child Day in Canada. It is a day as all days to listen to children, to respect them and to marvel at all they have to offer.

As 1994 marks the International Year of the Family this is also a day to honour the important role of the family in children's lives. Families are the place where nurturing and respect shape young lives, where identity, culture and values are passed from one generation to the next. Families are truly the cornerstone of society. They equip children with the tools they need to become caring responsible citizens.

For all this we owe the families of our country a great deal from children to grandparents. Let us not forget that grandparents can offer the unconditional love and understanding our children and grandchildren need.

Let us act now to create a better and brighter future for all children because they are our country's most valuable resource and because children matter.

Louis RielStatements By Members

11:10 a.m.

NDP

Len Taylor NDP The Battlefords—Meadow Lake, SK

Mr. Speaker, on Wednesday of this week Metis people across Canada held ceremonies to recognize the 109th anniversary of the hanging of Louis Riel for treason. Unfortunately Riel has been portrayed as either a traitor or a madman. In fact he was a founder of Manitoba, a member of the House, and a teacher who fought racism and unsympathetic authorities as he championed the cause of human rights.

Riel fought hard for Metis rights and worked to voice the concerns of early western Canadians. He was a man who inspired and carried Metis dreams in 1885 and refused to abandon his people. In doing so he gave all aboriginal people the will to push forth and fight for their dreams and beliefs.

This week is a good opportunity for Canadians and members of the House to remember all of the Metis and aboriginal people who have made the country a better place to live. Louis Riel and the other great Indian leaders such as Chief Poundmaker and Chief Big Bear died for what they believed in and passed on a proud legacy which continues to be carried by the Metis and aboriginal people today.

Jack MinerStatements By Members

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Jerry Pickard Liberal Essex—Kent, ON

Mr. Speaker, this month marks the 50th anniversary of the death of Jack Miner, Canada's greatest naturalist. Jack Miner is best known as the founder of the Jack Miner Sanctuary near Kingsville, Ontario.

Jack was an incredible person who was honoured by kings, queens, presidents and prime ministers for his great work in conservation. Jack was a very practical man who planted trees, not for a shady resting place for his retirement but for the appreciation and benefit of future generations.

He banded the legs of thousands of Canada geese to identify their North American flyways. By placing a line of scripture on the band he used these legions of geese to spread the gospel throughout North America.

To make certain this sanctuary would not be burdened by taxpayers, Jack Miner spent years lecturing about nature around the world. He set up a perpetual trust fund to pay for the operation of the Jack Miner Foundation.

Jack Miner's family, Manley, Jasper, Kirk, and Cheryl have dedicated their lives to carry on the great tradition of Jack Miner.

Marine AtlanticStatements By Members

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Roger Simmons Liberal Burin—St. George's, NL

Mr. Speaker, the decision to eliminate shore based [stevedoring positions] on the Marine Atlantic ferries makes no sense whatsoever. Dozens of full time workers and replacement crew in the Port aux Basques area alone will lose their jobs. It will hurt the local economy at the worst possible time.

This issue is of great concern to everyone for another reason. There is fear that if the plan goes ahead the safety of the public will be compromised for the sake of efficiency.

There is a real need for Marine Atlantic to take another look at the issue to see the logic of keeping the [stevedoring position] at those ports including Port aux Basques and North Sydney where it has served so well for so many years.

EducationStatements By Members

11:10 a.m.

Reform

Hugh Hanrahan Reform Edmonton Strathcona, AB

Mr. Speaker, I rise today in total amazement that on Wednesday afternoon the Minister of Human Resources Development challenged the student protesters to sit down and present their ideas.

In my riding of Edmonton-Strathcona four different university groups requested to speak before the human resources committee and were originally turned down. These groups found out late yesterday that they would be appearing before the committee and would be receiving only 15 minutes each to present their arguments. I wonder how much time has been allocated to each of the 165 organizations whose noses are still in the public trough as they received almost $4 million in intervening funding.

It seems clear to me that the Liberals are following the previous government's actions of talking to whom they wish and then having the audacity to call it public consultations. Canadians are not stupid. If the Liberals continue this shameful display they too will be able to hold their caucus meetings in a telephone booth just like the Tories.

Collège Militaire Royal De Saint-JeanOral Question Period

11:15 a.m.

Bloc

Gilles Duceppe Bloc Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC

Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the Minister of National Defence. Despite the constructive offer from the mayor of Saint-Jean that was announced this week, the federal government insists on closing the Collège militaire royal de Saint-Jean, on the grounds that it would save $23 million annually by making the RMC in Kingston a bilingual institution that would welcome francophone officer cadets.

How can the minister maintain that he will save $23 million annually by closing the Collège militaire royal de Saint-Jean, considering that very substantial additional spending will be required to help the RMC in Kingston make the necessary adjustments to accommodate students transferred from Saint-Jean and hire additional staff?

Collège Militaire Royal De Saint-JeanOral Question Period

11:15 a.m.

Don Valley East Ontario

Liberal

David Collenette LiberalMinister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member does not have full possession of the facts.

There were a number of expenses that were authorized by the previous government a couple of years ago for construction to start in 1995 for improvements to the Royal Military College in Kingston. Those are proceeding.

With respect to the accommodation of students that will be required as a result of the closing of Royal Roads and CMR, there will only be minor modifications required with respect to the additional facilities at Kingston. Some of the provisions can be met by using existing military facilities and barracks at Kingston.

Collège Militaire Royal De Saint-JeanOral Question Period

11:15 a.m.

Bloc

Gilles Duceppe Bloc Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC

Mr. Speaker, the minister should give us the details we have requested for over a year.

Why does he refuse to admit that the so-called savings of $23 million exist only in his own mind and is just a gross exaggeration by the government to justify its rash decision to close the Collège militaire royal de Saint-Jean, a decision that was rushed through at the very last minute before the budget?

Collège Militaire Royal De Saint-JeanOral Question Period

11:15 a.m.

Don Valley East Ontario

Liberal

David Collenette LiberalMinister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs

Mr. Speaker, again it was not a decision that was taken at the last minute. The closing of the two military colleges was something that was planned in preparation for us to meet our red book requirement to reduce military spending at the beginning of the year 1994-95. We have been through those arguments before.

However, as far as the $23 million is concerned in terms of savings that is absolute, that is fixed. I would ask the hon. member to consult with his colleague, the member for Roberval, who came to the standing committee on defence and veterans affairs and questioned very precisely officials of the Department of National Defence and I believe got a full accounting.

There is no fudging of figures. The $23 million in savings from CMR is real.

Collège Militaire Royal De Saint-JeanOral Question Period

11:15 a.m.

Bloc

Gilles Duceppe Bloc Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC

Mr. Speaker, we asked the hon. member for Roberval about this, and the answers he was given lead to conclusions that are entirely different from those produced by the minister. He knows perfectly well that the decision made before the budget was to close the colleges in Saint-Jean and Victoria. The decision had been made.

The minister also knows perfectly well that Quebec has only 13 per cent of Canada's military infrastructures and that they decided to close CMR because at the last minute, they realized they needed an excuse that would satisfy English Canada, and that excuse was closing the CMR. The decision was not based on financial considerations but was merely a face-saving gesture. That is the real reason.

Collège Militaire Royal De Saint-JeanOral Question Period

11:15 a.m.

Don Valley East Ontario

Liberal

David Collenette LiberalMinister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs

Mr. Speaker, I am not prepared to discuss the reasons that led to the closing of the CMR. We have made statements in the House on other occasions, and I think our position is quite clear.

I have to say that much of what the hon. member asserts in this particular matter is absolutely false. We are not going to revisit the fact that the budget last year called for a certain reduction in expenditures in defence. It called for the closing of the two colleges. Those two colleges will close.

What is really the issue and something that he should be concerned about is that the former Government of Quebec signed a deal that would meet the Department of National Defence's needs, the Government of Canada's needs, and also assist in the transformation of CMR into a civilian institution. The Government of Quebec is refusing to honour that deal.

National DefenceOral Question Period

November 18th, 1994 / 11:20 a.m.

Bloc

Michel Bellehumeur Bloc Berthier—Montcalm, QC

Mr. Speaker, my question is also for the Minister of National Defence.

Following disturbing revelations by major Barry Armstrong, senior medical officer of the unit several members of which were charged with the murder and torture of Somalian civilians, the Minister of National Defence announced yesterday a civilian public inquiry. Most of the decisions handed down so far have been appealed and the inquiry will take place after the appeals are heard.

Does the Minister of National Defence intend to vest this inquiry with the same powers as a regular commission of inquiry, in particular subpoena and search powers, and the power to send officers with a warrant to obtain all relevant documents wherever they may be?

National DefenceOral Question Period

11:20 a.m.

Don Valley East Ontario

Liberal

David Collenette LiberalMinister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs

Mr. Speaker, I do not think it is appropriate for me to go further in the interests of ensuring the cause of justice be served by giving any more details about the inquiry that I announced yesterday. It will be an inquiry held under the auspices of the National Defence Act. It will be fully public. It will be totally civilian, including the chair. Members of the previous inquiry will be invited to participate in some particular way.

As to the powers of that inquiry and the terms of reference, those will be drafted in the next couple of months. What I have to worry about and what the hon. member should worry about is the timing of such an inquiry. As legislators we cannot do anything that would serve to undermine the judicial process now under way.

National DefenceOral Question Period

11:20 a.m.

Bloc

Michel Bellehumeur Bloc Berthier—Montcalm, QC

Mr. Speaker, can the minister assure that this inquiry will also get to the bottom of things regarding the behaviour of several other soldiers belonging to the second commando of the Petawawa airborne regiment, and in particular the behaviour of high-ranking officers who supposedly allowed a group called the "Rebels" to fly a flag symbolizing white supremacy, for several months, on the Petawawa base, with complete impunity?

National DefenceOral Question Period

11:20 a.m.

Don Valley East Ontario

Liberal

David Collenette LiberalMinister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs

Mr. Speaker, the inquiry will deal with all the aspects of the deployment of our forces in Somalia and all the activities of the airborne regiment. This is what I said we would do and I stand by that decision.

JusticeOral Question Period

11:20 a.m.

Reform

Elwin Hermanson Reform Kindersley—Lloydminster, SK

Mr. Speaker, I bring to the attention of the House a very serious matter. This week the drunken and cocaine defence arguments acquitted a person charged with a serious crime once again since the Supreme Court ruled that intoxication could be used as a defence in any crime.

Will the government commit to introducing a bill promptly in order to deal with this critical inadequacy in the law?

JusticeOral Question Period

11:20 a.m.

Cape Breton—The Sydneys Nova Scotia

Liberal

Russell MacLellan LiberalParliamentary Secretary to Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the hon. member's concern in this question. It is a concern to all of us in this House of Commons.

The Minister of Justice has stated on occasion his concern on the matter. He has released a discussion paper which will seek the opinions of people right across the country up until February 28, at which point he will then do what he has to do and what needs to be done as quickly as possible to correct this deficiency.

JusticeOral Question Period

11:20 a.m.

Reform

Elwin Hermanson Reform Kindersley—Lloydminster, SK

Mr. Speaker, Canadians' nerves are fraying over this matter. The parliamentary secretary refers to a discussion paper, but in reality we should snap to some common sense in this place and do something.

The Minister of Justice knows that under the common law judges are guided by previous decisions in similar cases. Criminals are on to this scam, realizing that they can get drunk or shoot up before or even after a crime if they are clever enough and be acquitted.

Once again, will the minister commit today to a date before Christmas by which he will introduce legislation closing this loophole in the Criminal Code so that this travesty of justice can be stopped?

JusticeOral Question Period

11:25 a.m.

Cape Breton—The Sydneys Nova Scotia

Liberal

Russell MacLellan LiberalParliamentary Secretary to Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada

Mr. Speaker, of the groups in this country that have spoken to the Minister of Justice, almost completely all of them have stated that the Minister of Justice must proceed cautiously on this point. They want a good law to come from this consultation. They do not want something thrown out that is not going to be appropriate under these circumstances. The Minister of Justice is taking this very seriously and he is going to come forward with this law. It is going to be a suitable one.

I would also say to the hon. member that two of these cases are under appeal and there is a very strong possibility that there could be a change in the decision on appeal.

JusticeOral Question Period

11:25 a.m.

Reform

Elwin Hermanson Reform Kindersley—Lloydminster, SK

Mr. Speaker, if this government was really taking this matter seriously it would move with much more speed than it is.

There is no excuse for delay. The minister acted with amazing speed to eliminate the cultural defence. We applaud that, but he is dragging his feet over the drunken defence. One has to wonder about his commitment to eliminating this defence.

Why does the Minister of Justice refuse to stop this madness today? Why does he not get in step with Canadians and place this item ahead of his own pet agenda of sexual orientation and gun control legislation?

JusticeOral Question Period

11:25 a.m.

Cape Breton—The Sydneys Nova Scotia

Liberal

Russell MacLellan LiberalParliamentary Secretary to Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada

Mr. Speaker, I do not think in the history of this country have we had a Minister of Justice that has moved on so many subjects as quickly as this Minister of Justice.

The Daviault case was decided. The decision was released by the Supreme Court of Canada on September 30. The Minister of Justice has been working on this question. He brought forward the discussion paper and we want a good result. We want to hear the opinion of Canadians. We do not want a knee-jerk reaction. That is not what Canadians want and that is not what Canadians deserve.

National DefenceOral Question Period

11:25 a.m.

Bloc

Roger Pomerleau Bloc Anjou—Rivière-Des-Prairies, QC

Mr. Speaker, recent information regarding the Canadian frigate program reveals that Unisys GSG, a company responsible for integrating the defence department's electronic systems, proved unable to meet the requirements of the department. It was learned that the Canadian Navy will not have the necessary systems to train its technicians, and yet taxpayers will still have to pay a $90 million bill. Instead of getting tough, the Department of National Defence chose to sack its own team of auditors who had brought the problem with Unisys to light.

How can the minister explain that he chose to disband his team of auditors, who were responsible for monitoring Unisys's work, instead of taking the appropriate action against a company which, obviously, is not even able to meet its contractual obligations to the Canadian government?

National DefenceOral Question Period

11:25 a.m.

Don Valley East Ontario

Liberal

David Collenette LiberalMinister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs

Mr. Speaker, one of the problems that we have with project management, which was involved in the development of the Canadian patrol frigates and has been the problem in the development of other armed forces equipment, is that often the expenditures that ultimately are incurred are much greater than originally anticipated because new technologies are being developed.

Unisys is a company based in Montreal that has done some outstanding work over the years and is in the vanguard of development of high technology integrated systems within this country. I would hope that as a member of Parliament and also one that represents a constituency in Quebec the hon. member would not want to denigrate in any way the good work that is done by that company.

With respect to the specific question on the Canadian patrol frigates, yes, there obviously were some teething problems. There were some cost overruns. These have been accommodated with negotiation between the company and the crown. As far as we are concerned the frigates now are fully operational. There may be the odd problem that surfaced because of the new technologies, but I do not think the member should be unduly worried.

National DefenceOral Question Period

11:25 a.m.

Bloc

Roger Pomerleau Bloc Anjou—Rivière-Des-Prairies, QC

Mr. Speaker, now that we know that the minister has not yet replaced his team of auditors, how can he explain that his department kept on making payments to Unisys GSG, even though he knew that this company was unable to deliver the products ordered by his department?